We appreciate this response and would be happy to explainWork for us, begins as soon as a project is signedSince the homeowner's signed a contract, our office begins processing, planning, and ultimately, executing that remodelJust because the homeowners did not see us physically, at their home, does not mean that we were not working on itHere is an overview of the steps we’ve already invested to get this project where its stands today: I.Our design representative, Gary met with these homeowners and provided them with an inspection and estimateThe homeowners approved an agreementII.Our Production Coordinator reviewed the contract and determined what needed orderingHe scheduled the second measureIII.Our financial department ran down paymentIV.Our marketing team was in contact to answer any questionsV.Our senior measuring technician, along with Gary the design rep made the drive out to get the full perspective of work and confirm Gary’s initial measurementsVI.A third measurement was conducted which included; our senior measuring technician, a plumber from Cities Plumbing and GaryVII.Our business owner is involved, having conversations with both their representation and these homeownersVIII.Our marketing team stepped in to respond to the complaintNone of our employees work for freeThere are expenses incurred at every phase of a home-improvement projectThis project has been touched in one way or another by nine employees hereWe want to mention we are not always able to determine the full scope of plumbing without a technician’s inspectionIt was clear to everyone involved that the scope of plumbing work was larger and that is why an additional tech measure was performed in October with a licensed plumberThis is the reason that our contract mentions this factOur contract reads, “Owner holds the Contractor harmless from hidden or pre-existing conditionsExisting out of square and plumb conditions may require similar conditions in the new workContractor may change installation methods, as required, to comply with local building code requirements.” This is all at an additional cost to the customer as mentioned in our previous response“All pricing is based upon the existing observable conditions in each areaAny additional costs arising out of latent defects or obstructions discovered in the course of performing the work for this contract will be charged to the Owner as an additional charge." No bait and switch ever transpired as the homeowners signed a contract with full knowledge of the contract stipulationsIf every homeowner could disregard their contract like it never happened what would be the point in signing it? We will stand by the agreementThe homeowners may cancel their contract and receive their partial deposit of $2,
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 11, 2015/09/03) */ We would like to complete the project within the next weeksWe have been trying to start the project many times and have been told noHere is a timeline of events: The Project was Sold on 7/5/The additional down payment was given on 7/and the project 2nd measure was on 8/5/Due to scheduling backlog of previous projects and our plumbers not being available, This project was pushed out past the beginning of November (as discussed at second measure) to later in the monthThe Homeowners didn't want to get started around the Thanksgiving holiday so their project was scheduled for the week after thanksgivingThe homeowners decided a week before we started that they did not want the project done in the winter (because it was going to be too cold coming in and out of their home and they didn't want to deal with dumpsters on the street and snow emergenciesthey wouldn't have to but that wasn't taken into consideration by them)Gary (salesperson) decided to give them a discount if they held off (and did not cancel) until it warmed up to start the projectA New agreement stated we couldn't start work before April 15th and work needed to be finished by the end of JuneOn April 27th I called the homeowners and left a voice mail message stating we were looking at getting started on their project the First or second week in JuneAfter not hearing back from them I called them again and left another message on WedJune 3rd and told them we would like to get started the following Monday (6/8)A plumber was lined up and Material were allocatedOn Thursday June 4th [redacted] and [redacted] called me (on the line together) and were pretty belligerent with meThey said they have water in their basement and seeping through their walls and right now it wouldn't be wise to cover up the walls until the water issue was fixedThey kept using the phrase "putting a band-aid" on the problemI agreed to hold off until there wasn't any water and told them to let me know when they have the water issue fixed and we would startOn (7/7) [redacted] called in to speak with me (Brandon)She was belligerent, and angry, and all she would say is "I want my Money" She continued to threatened me by saying she was/is a police officer and I should give her their money (or else)I conferred with her and figured out that she was talking about her down paymentI told her I couldn't give that back to her but if her water issue was fixed we could certainly get started on her basement projectShe just kept demanding I give her money back and said she wanted interest and if she didn't get that by the end of the day tomorrow she was going to go to the Revdex.com and the attorney General etcI told her the only person who could make that decision is Dan the owner of Great LakesDan called her and he received the same responseAs stated before, we have all of the products we needs and would be happy to get started on their project as contractedWe only need them to allow us into their home which has been the biggest obstacle Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 17, 2015/10/06) */ Thank you so much for re-sending me the infoI have no idea why I didn't get it the first timePlease re-open the caseOf course I disagree with most of the response from Great Lakes Window and SidingWhen all this first started on July 5th we were told it was a six week projectOur job was to be finished by fall of before the ground frozeSomeone from Great Lakes (I believe Brandon) called in November to start the project in DecemberDecember just didn't work for us for many reasonsToo cold to leave our dog outside, company coming for Christmas, the weatherWhen we discussed this with Great Lakes they seemed to understand and sent Gary out to sign a new contractThey gave us a nice discount on the second contract, because they knew they dropped the ball by not having the work completed within a reasonable time frameWe appreciated the discount, but added in the new contract the work would be completed by June 28th we were leaving townWe were reassured this wouldn't be a problemThe problem came when they called in June wanting to start the project we were originally told would take at least four but probably six weeksTherefore could not be completed by the agreed upon date of June 28thWhere the rest of the nonsense in their response comes in is beyond meI would just like my money backThey didn't do any work at all at my houseI have lived in my house for over years, the basement is damp, that is why we wanted the remodel in the first placeI take exceptional offense to the remark that they claim I said I was a Police Officer, I would never claim to be someone that I am notI have absolutely no reason toWhen I asked Chris for my money back I even told him he could keep any interest, I just wanted my money backHe just laughed and told me to sue him and I may see my money sometime in I am hoping that the Revdex.com can assist me in getting my $18,back from Great Lakes Window and Siding, it is a lot of money and they have no right to keep itI would prefer to have any interest made off my money sent to me as well, but would be settle for $18,I just don't understand why Great Lakes Window and Siding thinks they can keep my moneyThey violated the contact by not getting the project started and completed in timeWe really would like to move on and get another company to remodel our basement Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (3000, 20, 2015/10/22) */ Thank you so much for re-sending me the infoI have no idea why I didn't get it the first timePlease re-open the caseOf course I disagree with most of the response from Great Lakes Window and SidingWhen all this first started on July 5th we were told it was a six week projectOur job was to be finished by fall of before the ground frozeSomeone from Great Lakes (I believe Brandon) called in November to start the project in DecemberDecember just didn't work for us for many reasonsToo cold to leave our dog outside, company coming for Christmas, the weatherWhen we discussed this with Great Lakes they seemed to understand and sent Gary out to sign a new contractThey gave us a nice discount on the second contract, because they knew they dropped the ball by not having the work completed within a reasonable time frameWe appreciated the discount, but added in the new contract the work would be completed by June 28th we were leaving townWe were reassured this wouldn't be a problemThe problem came when they called in June wanting to start the project we were originally told would take at least four but probably six weeksTherefore could not be completed by the agreed upon date of June 28thWhere the rest of the nonsense in their response comes in is beyond meI would just like my money backThey didn't do any work at all at my houseI have lived in my house for over years, the basement is damp, that is why we wanted the remodel in the first placeI take exceptional offense to the remark that they claim I said I was a Police Officer, I would never claim to be someone that I am notI have absolutely no reason toWhen I asked Chris for my money back I even told him he could keep any interest, I just wanted my money backHe just laughed and told me to sue him and I may see my money sometime in I am hoping that the Revdex.com can assist me in getting my $18,back from Great Lakes Window and Siding, it is a lot of money and they have no right to keep itI would prefer to have any interest made off my money sent to me as well, but would be settle for $18,I just don't understand why Great Lakes Window and Siding thinks they can keep my moneyThey violated the contact by not getting the project started and completed in timeWe really would like to move on and get another company to remodel our basement Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 24, 2015/11/11) */ As mentioned before, We have been trying to and are willing to complete this projectWe have complied with all of their deadlines and other demands and have been extremely accommodatingI can appreciate that they have a new contractor that they would like to do this project, however they have a contract with us and we plan to honor that contract as is our right under Minnesota LawAny delay in completing this project is due to the actions of the aforementioned homeownersIn the state of Minnesota, there is a window of business days in which one can cancel a contract such as thisWe were well beyond that date before they decided to not honor their contractThe ball is in their court
I understand you are not satisfied with the end result of your project and for that we apologize and will continue to do what is in our power to remedy the situation We would be willing to install the two wall panels that came in last Friday and would be happy to include a new Shower Rod that was not charged for or on the contract The tile on your wall is most likely unreplaceable unless you would like to replace it in its entirety We do everything we can to reduce any damage to your home, but one thing we all have to remember is this is construction, and when dealing with existing situations, damage can occur no matter what precautions you take What we can do is replace the two side acrylic panels that you were unhappy with, see what we can do with your plaster wall in the closet, brace your walls for a scrshower rod, and install a new shower rod We feel this is very fair
The project was completed on 11/-- during her walk-through none of these items were brought up and our installer was given a "5" out of "5" in terms of satisfaction On Saturday the 26th, Ms [redacted] called into the office to complain (Plumbers did not clean up adequately in her basement)We apologized to her as she was correct in what she was saying and the installer was out there the following Wednesday (11/30) to clean up after the plumber and to spackle as much as we could of the wall around the access panel that had crumbled from removing the access panelOn that date, Ms [redacted] notified Rick our sales person and Brandon the production manager to let them know she was expecting a scrshower rod This was not on the contract and was not charged for It is not wise to put one up without bracing the wall prior to installationOn 12/14, Ms [redacted] faxed in a letter demanding the project be re-done with new tile and items that were not contracted for and for the response to be in writing via email We responded on 12/via emailMs [redacted] called in on 12/and left Brandon a message asking why nothing was being done Brandon responded the way she asked to receive correspondence (email) by emailing the response from the 14th stating what we will/will not be doing to fix her project Ms [redacted] replied on 12/with a "demand" letter Brandon Responded on 12/stating we would be getting back to her as soon as the wall panels are in Most of the correspondence hasn't been via phone, it has been via email I have every email that was sent back and forth from Kim and I The last email that was sent was on the 9th of this month explaining to her that we could replace the two side walls and try to do what we can with the plaster wall in the closet where the access panel is Outside of that, We cannot replace the existing tile that is there The two wall panels were delivered to us on Friday 1/and we have every intention to re-install them Worth noting Ms [redacted] confronted and berated our marketing staff (who know nothing about what has transpired) at the home and garden show over this weekendMs [redacted] is on my list to call in order to schedule her service She will be receiving a phone call today to do so
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the consumer in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and find that arbitration is necessary I am contacting you in regard to complaint ID # [redacted] from Rochelle [redacted] We (Great Lakes) would be interested in Revdex.com arbitration This issue has yet to be resolved Please let me know what the next step is Thank you-- Brandon ***
We are rejecting the response from Great Lakes Home Renovations because we don’t think that the response is reasonableWhomever wrote the response says that we have an agreement with them signed on 9/9/17, but our agreement was signed on 9/7/The response references a clause of the contract that discusses a price increase if “latent defects” are discovered “in the course of performing the work,” but the work never began and any observed defects would be patent – no walls were opened, no fixtures were removed, no work (other than a few measurements) was performedThe response references a “change order” but this is the first time we’ve heard of a change orderNothing about the work to be performed changed between the signing of the agreement and Great Lakes’ attempt to raise the cost of the workWe feel this is a classic example of “bait and switch”: after we have a signed agreement, they raise the price of the project and try to hold us to the agreementThey are withholding our deposit in bad faithWe’ve never seen a list of the “certain expenses” referenced in the responseWe’re willing to submit supporting documents to the Revdex.com if it helpsGreat Lakes has already received a copy of our documentation.Great Lakes has an A+ rating on the Revdex.com website, but their business practices are horribleHow can we get our money back? How can we stop this from happening to others?
I am rejecting this response because: Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vswhat we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation” On 09/20/206, the Bath Planet representative Brandon Hoehl arrived to discuss the project We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down paymentBased upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted] , performed the 2nd measure and site inspection There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work I figured we were good to go After approximately weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon ***, to get an installation updateI was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife ***, called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/ It was neither a commitment or confirmationWhen we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon The Installer arrived 12/as scheduled About minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drainThe Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work The installer went back to work He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” sizeThe shower base as delivered was inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle The installer spent more time on the phone than anything I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange” The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam” Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/confirming that this was not a nailing flange He was able to view my order with Bath Planet He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it workI’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time” I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way” He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business” He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent Again, zero communication The floor is being replaced by me, not Bath Planet Individuals, including Brandon ***, not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me This was not passed on to their designers Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolvedI had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issuesI helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need” He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about weeks to get it in I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s” No kiddingWe emailed the manufacturer on 12/and got a similar (weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) week delivery that Lowe’s provided I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment” Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way I told him that is not happening They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract Also not happeningI asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputesI emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size I then filed my Revdex.com complaint In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted] His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business” At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/Bath Planet’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problemsI doubt corporate Bath Planet national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this pointThreats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respectYou are failing many of your pledges and promises Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $coupon discount is questionable at best I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaintsOther consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and Bath Planet MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects Bath Planet should be able to return the damaged shower base The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications My resolution goal remains a refund of my depositI wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forwardThat is why we are at an impasse, Julie *** I am not a novice I built the house myself in the 70’sI have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:BPMN told us at the beginning of our project that our desire to maximize headroom in our shower could be accomplished by attaching the ceiling directly to the overhead joists They never said that in doing so there would be risk that the shower would be delivered with crooked walls and a bowing ceiling Regardless, review of the ceiling installation by a 3rd party contractor indicates that the “blocking” method used by BPMN to install the ceiling (directly to the joists in lieu of framing and sheetrock) isn’t what caused the ceiling to bow Instead, it was incorrect placement of the blocks to the lowest hanging joist Something that, if done correctly, would have prevented the ceiling from bowing Documentation of this assessment was provide to BPMN but no follow up/feedback was received In addition, if any defects/issues with the shower relate to incorrect framing (as BPMN has claimed), they are still held responsible since it was work contracted by them, not us We should not be forced to pay for, and live with, a poorly installed shower because BPMN failed to manage and inspect the work performed by their subcontractor (framing) and their employees (ceiling “blocking”) We agree with BPMN’s assessment that there was nearly weekly contact between us but only because we initiated it And yes, calls were made to both the office and personal cell phones of the production manager (PM) but only because these were the numbers given to us Our phone records show that between 09/03/and 02/10/16, calls were placed between us and the PM’s office or cell phone We initiated of the office calls and of the cell phone callsOnly calls reflect a weekend day, both on Saturday and both to the office number I think these numbers are a good reflection of how one sided our communication with BPMN was throughout the course of our project In addition, the earliest call was at 09:02AM and the latest at 5:55PM In addition, if at any time we were told to restrict our calls to specific numbers and times, we most assuredly would have complied.Once the BPMN work begin in November, the PM made only visits to our houseNone were to discuss the details of our project or to review/inspect the progress of the work as it was delivered The first visit was in November when BPMN’s framer brought two light a possible issue relating to two small pipes that infringed into the area above the showerThe PM came on site, took pictures and told us that “no” the pipes would not pose any problemsNo additional details were provided The PM’s second visit was in December on the day the interior bathroom finishing and shower install was to beginWe asked him to come to the house when we were told by the installers that they had been instructed to install a soffit to address pipes that hung over the showerThe PM never told us a soffit was to be installed and should have known that would not be agreeable with us given we had clearly communicated at the startup of our project that we wanted to do everything possible to maximize headroom At this point we had no other choice but to incur the additional cost and time to have relocate the pipes It was our hope that BPMN would provide us some type of financial consideration since we felt this issue could have been prevented if it had been identified and addressed earlier in the project For example, we could have avoided the pipes altogether by shortening the length of our bathroom by inches, or we could have had the pipes relocated in the months leading up to the bathroom install which would have prevented the one month delay A late night phone call with the owner resulted in no such relief The owner was abrasive, intimidating and flatly refused to accept any responsibility The PM’s third visit to our home was in January when we refused to make final payment At our insistence he was accompanied by the business owner, who as we pointed out in our original complaint, refused to accept any responsibility for the flaws/defects in what BPMN had delivered We do not agree with BPMN’s assessment that the wall and ceiling finishing defects were “minor” When the PM and owner came to our home to view the completed bathroom and the defects for which final payment was being withheld, we had placed at least two dozen pieces of blue tape on the walls and ceilings where flaws were found We can provide photos if necessary.We take exception to BPMN’s feedback that we were satisfied and “signed off” on the work and only voiced our concerns when final payment was requested The so call “sign off” was presented to us as the BPMN workers were rushing out the door In fact one of the workers was sitting out in the truck with the engine running We were advised by an employee that he was mandated by BPMN to get the completed form before leaving the site We fully regret not pushing back and refusing to complete it until we had more time to thoroughly inspect the work (w/o tools and equipment impeding our full access and w/o the BPMN worker looking over our shoulder) It is also important to point out that in completing the form we included a number of comments highlighting our complete dissatisfaction with the way in BPMN had managed our project including complete lack of communication and customer serviceAt the same time as sign off, we were also asked to make final payment The fact that we refused to do so, reflects our dissatisfaction with what had been delivered Also, I would like to point out that in terms of sign off, BPMN didn’t come anywhere close to delivering upon what they have stated in their Exclusive Guarantee It states “we will review the end-of-project review form with you BEFORE beginning the installation of your new bathroomIf you cannot rate us as Outstanding on any criteria at the end of the installation, tell us – and we will make it rightWe do not believe in “good enough” In addition, the Guarantee states “within two weeks of installation an independent Customer Research/Survey company will contact you to get your unfiltered and unbiased assessment of our company We take this feedback very seriously ” We were never contacted to provide suchfeedbackIn terms of the injured employee we know his ability to perform was impeded by his hand injury, whatever the type He dropped a slab of sheetrock resulting in the need for a third employee to be called onsite to help carry sheetrock on his behalf We also witnessed him having difficulty carrying a heavy piece of equipment resulting in him putting a “ding” in a wall which was then patched.In terms of BPMN employees performing non licensed plumbing work feedback from our contracted plumber is that one of the BPMN shower installers removed an inner wall faucet plate used to help provide stabilization to the exterior faucet when attached The removal of the plate should have been discussed with the contracted plumber who installed it If removal was deemed necessary, it should have been removed by the plumber, not the BPMN installer Additionally, we contracted and paid the plumbing service to install the shower head and faucet It should not have been installed by BPMN resulting in the faucet being installed "crooked" with blame being placed on the contracted plumbing service.Our originally communicated desired resolution remains unchanged Sincerely, [redacted]
First off, I would like to say Thank you to [redacted] for his returned and referral business It is greatly appreciatedThe products we use/sell/install are all great products that carry warranties from their manufacturers (we are not a manufacturer) These warranties cover manufacturing defects and nearly all of them will replace the product if it is determined by the manufacturer to be defective Although the product is covered, the labor to replace/fix the defects are not That being said, there are certain items that are not covered under warranty -- one of those items is caulking This is clearly stated in our warranty as well as the warranties from our siding and window manufacturersUnfortunately there isn't a sealant/caulking out there that has been proven to last a lifetime of the homeIn regard to our to this specific instance, [redacted] called in a service request for caulking, we notified him of our service procedure and pricing This is not the first time he has been notified of our service procedure and pricing and should not have been surprised He asked for the matching caulking and said he would do the touwork himself We did not have that color match (we do not stock caulking in our warehouse), but told him where he could get that specific color from the manufacturer (less than mins away from his home) and told him it would be quicker if he picked it up than if we scheduled a time to pick them upBecause of this suggestion, [redacted] came in to our showroom and verbally berated our receptionist with a multiple letter word tirade that left this person shaken and very upset No one should be treated this way while at workIn an effort to curtail this scenario from happening again, we picked up OSI quad caulking that would work with his color siding and notified [redacted] that we had it He told us he would pick the caulking up and did so on Tuesday June 27th We have worked with [redacted] on other service issues on a case by case basis and have been very fair with him as we would with any other customers of ours I think now more than ever, we cannot make exceptions on a case by case basis with him as we have in the past We have to treat all of our customers exactly the same way The caulking was installed correctlyThe reason it is "cracking " is due to age (over years old) and required maintenance We certainly wish [redacted] didn't feel this way We thank him for his business and will continue to do great service in accordance to his warranty on his home as needed Brandon [redacted] Great Lakes Home Renovations Apple Valley, MN ###-###-####
Unfortunately there seems to be a misunderstanding between what the homeowner's were thinking they were receiving and what they signed up for We apologize for any part we played in that misunderstanding, but we do everything we can to make sure there is very little interpretation in what our customers are purchasing and we are certain this is the case in this situation as well In order to have the shape and size of shower pan that Mr and Mrs [redacted] want with a wall being built along one section of it, there needs to be a narrow end to accommodate a nailing flange on the side the wall is constructed The measurements "60x36" are taken at the widest point In order to accommodate the narrow end to be 36" on the inside, we would need the long side to be over 40" long which is considerably more expensive and also wouldn't be possible due to an HVAC vent at approximately 37" mark In remodeling, we are sometimes constrained to existing situations The shower pan did have a chip in the nailing flange and we informed the homeowners that we would be happy to re-order a new shower pan but informed the homeowners that no size modifications could be madeThe homeowners told us not to re-order the shower pan We would love to continue this project if the homeowner but are left at an impasse We will not be refunding the down payment the homeowner is looking for We have many material and labor costs associated with their project We have a contract with the homeowner that we have a legal obligation to upholdWe hope the homeowners will allow us into their home to complete the project and we thank them for their business
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of MediationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.] Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] ,and find that Mediation is necessary Regards, [redacted] ***
We are very sorry to hear Mr and Mrs [redacted] are unhappy with their project.We have made several attempts to work on a resolution to their concerns but all attempts have been denied. Jeff met with the homeowners on November 15th 2016.He handled this project as he does all his projects and gave... no misleading or false information. Upon that meeting, the homeowners signed a contract for a full kitchen remodel including a new center island. On December 14, our call center received an email asking for an update about their project. Jeff met with the homeowners the very next day and the center island design was approved. We cannot order anything without written approval from the homeowner which was given to us on Dec 15th 2016. Material was ordered and install was scheduled for January 20th 2017. On January 24thJeff met with the homeowners again to go over the installation and answer any questions. At that point the homeowners requested custom paneling for the center island at no additional cost to them.This product was immediately ordered to satisfy the customer. These panels are very "custom" and take time to build templates for, write code for the routing machines and assembly.This is a very costly endeavor ($1,100.00) which Great Lakes was willing to undertake in order to make the customer satisfied with their project.When the panels arrived, our kitchen Installer called the homeowners to ask when he could be out to install them. At that point the homeowners refused further installation processes and told him they would be finding someone else to finish their kitchen project.An invoice was sent to Mr and Mrs [redacted] for the work completed.As of today (Wednesday March 8th) NO payment has been received outside of the agreed upon down payment. As for the statement on the timeline, the website states “kitchen installation will be finished in a matter of days”, it does not say “a few days”. Kitchen remodels to this scale cannot be completed in "a few days" even if we had two overnight crews. Our expected time-frame was correct until the homeowners refused any additional installation. It was the homeowner’s choice to close the doors to us, however it does not change what was agreed to in the original contract. All work Great Lakes completed is how it would be done in every home and is how it is done by the manufacturer, and is keeping with industry standard. Great Lakes is willing to deduct $500 from the final balance to put toward the damaged stove top. This is not an admission of responsibility, rather a goodwill gesture. We would also, as has been reiterated to the homeowner multiple times, request the opportunity to take care of any service items and address any concerns the homeowner may have.
We are very aware of the location the homeowner is hearing the squeak from [redacted] our production manager was made to get into the tub and step on said "Back" area of the tub The homeowners are worried there is some "give" and a squeak The product will/was meant to flex At the time of inspection by our Production manager, the only squeak her heard was from the floor We are well aware they do not believe the squeak is taking place on their floor In any case, if the homeowner believes there is a defect in the product, they will need to submit a warranty claim to the company that manufactured the product This company is not our companyThe contact information should be on their warranty If they no longer have this information, they can contact our office and we can provide them with this information
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 9, 2014/09/02) */ Great Lakes Window & Siding Co mailed out check # XXXXX as a refund including interest per consumer's desired resolution
We completed this project on 9/14/ In mid-November, the homeowners contacted Great Lakes to say there was a slight "Squeak" when they would step in a certain area of the bathtub The homeowners were assured that what they are experiencing is very normal You have a very heavy
cast-iron tub (or something similar) that was there for quite some time, that is removed and replaced with a much lighter product that has some "give" to it in certain areas There is some settling that happens and sometimes there is a squeak in the floorThis is not uncommon The homeowner called again January 11th They spoke with *** our production manager*** once again assured them that there is nothing wrong with the tub itself but if they would like, he would go out to their home and check everything out himselfThese are the notes from that visit on Monday 1/25/2016: "I (***) was out there on Monday (1/25) at 11am to check it out I stood in the area where it "Squeaks" and there were no Squeaks The homeowner became very agitated because it wasn't squeaking He stepped into the tub and with his whole body weight was practically jumping on the back of his tub (an area which isn't usually stepped on) and there was a slight giveOutside of that, there was a slight "creek" that was clearly caused by his floor boards I told him he didn't have anything to worry about and that his tub is just fineHe Yelled at me to get out of his house immediately." -- During all of the interactions with Mrand Mrs***, they were treated with the utmost respect and professionalism Outside of not agreeing with the homeowners, at no time was there an interaction that would be considered "Rude" and we apologize if the homeowner felt that way Bottom line: The homeowners can rest assured there is nothing wrong with their bathtubIf there is ever anything that happens due to defect, we would be happy to submit a warranty claim on the homeowner's behalf
We apologize for the dissatisfaction Mrand Ms*** have. I will respond to specifics of the project. We were out to install a shower base and walls. After demolition we discovered a vented flex vent bath fan being run beneath the existing tub in a way that is not up to
code. We had to disconnect the flex vent piping (knowing it would need to be re-routed to meet code compliance) to install the new shower pan per our contract. We notified a plumber (also an HVAC professional) of the flex piping situation, and he gave a vague ball-park quote of $for that type of work without seeing the project. We notified the homeowner who was on-site that there may be additional charges involved with moving that flex piping. When the plumber arrived on-site, both he and the city inspector verified that there would be no way to properly run an exhaust fan vent into the wall cavity it was originally running through and both gave the assessment that it would have to be vented via alternative means. This is work we do not do. It is true what was said to the homeowners, we are not an HVAC company. This is outside of our original scope of work, therefore we proceeded as contracted. We did however give a couple of recommendations of companies that we have worked with in the past that do this sort of work. During the entire process, we have been very forthcoming to the fact that we cannot see behind walls or under floors until the demolition occurs. In certain instances, such as this, we run into issues we cannot foresee. In these instances we work with the homeowner on working toward solutions to their problems. As for the wall installation issues, we all have to be aware that we are always working with existing situations. There is never a completely "square" and "plum" wall in homesWe have to account for those issues by cutting our wall panels in such a way to account for those shortcomings. This is not easy, it is done on-site and in some cases the cuts are not 100% perfect. There are variations in existing mud and sheetrock and the 1/2" Dens-shield we install on the backing to the tune of 1/6"-1/8". This is fairly and we run into this issue all the time. The adhesive we place on the wall panels accounts for between 1/8" and 3/16" of space. Our main objective is to make the wall panel as flat as possible and in such instances have to use thicker adhesive to build up depressions in the wall to even everything out. As for the variation in cut sizes, what is being discussed is a wall panel that is covered up and will not be seen. When installing our back panels, we need to keep gaps of a minimum of 1/8" to 1/4" to account for expansion and contraction. In this situation, as is a common occurrence, there is an accumulation of mud and paint in the corner of sheetrock that we need to account for. What is present is a cut that accounts for the wall changes and what is present is a small area between the dens shield and wall panel equally aprox5/16" over a very small area and narrowing to 1/4" or less just above it where the wall panel meets the sheetrock. Is it perfect? No, it is not. However, it is in my professional opinion that it will have no effect on the performance of the wall system once installed. If the homeowner would like to work with us on some solutions to this, we would be more than happy to make sure they are satisfied with the results and their minds are put to ease to the solutions we come up withWe value Mr and Mrs***'s business greatly, and look forward to working with them on their service issues
There are issues with their project and most of those issues stem from their floor joists (basement ceiling) which could have been addressed had we installed framing below the joists to hang sheetrock onThe homeowner did not want this to happen due to ceiling height restraintsThe homeowner
initially signed off on everything and said they were very satisfied, until pressed for final paymentThere were small touissues in the mud/taping and some silicone that "shrunk" slightly which is to be expected and which we were happy to take care ofMind you, the homeowner did not allow us to come back to fix those issuesThey decided to hire someone else
The homeowners and our staff were in contact nearly weeklyThe homeowners called personal cell phones to talk about the project at all hours of the day as late as 9pm and also on the weekendsThose phone calls primarily were not answered until the following business dayWe had made it clear that communication should be during business hours and through the office but the homeowners refused to do soIn addition to always calling them back in a timely manner, there were several visits to their homeThere were changes to their project and parts of those changes included the homeowner getting their own sub-contractors for work we do not doWe needed that work (once again, we do not do this type of work) to be done before we started our portion of the project (which to most people this seems reasonable) and didn't think it was too much of a burden to ask they contact us when that portion of the work was finishing upAs soon as the project started, we worked very close with the sub-contractors hired by the homeownerAs for the "specs" of the shower, the only specs that were asked for or questions asked were specs on the shower pan which was given to the plumber at his requestIt is also worth noting that the production manager got these specs to the plumber at the drop of a hat while he was on vacation with his familyThe production manager was never notified in the days leading up to the plumber needing the specs or else the specs would have been available for the plumber without the production manager's helpWhen they inquired, the plumber and the homeowner were notified that the production manager was on vacation and would be back days laterThis was not ok with the homeowners and they took it upon themselves to call the personal cell phone of this person and demand the specs be givenThe production manager took nearly hours out of his family's time to make sure the plumber had this informationIt's pretty shocking to see anything else written to the contrary
As for the other absurd issues such as an "injured" employee and working without a plumbing license, one of our two installers had a deep cut (completely unrelated to this project) to two of his fingers and had stichesHe didn't have a "cast" on his hand, he had two of his fingers "wrapped" so his stiches would not be exposedHe was in no way unable to perform his job and it is absurd to say anything elseAs for the plumbing issues, we did not install the shower plumbing/faucetThat was installed (and inspected) by their plumberThe only thing that was installed was the "trim kit" that goes on outside of the plumbing fixtureNothing that requires ANY plumbing and/or a plumbing licenseTo infer there was anything done outside a building contractors license is dangerous and wildly inaccurate
We eventually came to an agreement to reduce the balance due by a pretty hefty $We thought this was more than fairThe homeowners agreed it was fair as wellAfter a few days they retracted their approval and said they would be paying all sub-contractors on their ownWe have not had any additional contact with them since
We provided all services and products that the homeowner and our company agreed to in writing for the contracted price we both agreed to in writingWe have worked with these homeowners in regard to all changes and differences in scope of workEvery time there were changes to the scope of work there were meetings with at least one of the homeowners and changes to price/product were put in writing every timeEverything that was done on this project was agreed to by both the homeowner and our company including the price of everythingIf the homeowner does not feel they received a fair price for the products/services they received they are just as much to blame as our company and objection should have been addressed in the bidding/contracting stageNo additional discounts will be given in addition to the discount of $1,that was already givenAny outstanding warranty/service issues will be taken care of as contractedAll liens will be released as soon as the agreed upon contract amount is paid to Great LakesIf for some reason the homeowners have not paid the sub-contractors directly as they stated they would, we will do so immediately
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.We have spoken with Brandon at Great Lakes regarding our complaint #***He has agreed to send us a check for the wall
We would like to remove our complaint as this has been resolved. Thank you,Nathan ***
I am rejecting this response because: I have spoken with the owner of the company and came to another resolutionHe said that since the plumbing was set up for an offset vanity top he would order it and send out the installer to finish the job when it comes inI agreed to pay the balance due when the vanity top, the vent cover and the decorative piece for the tub faucet is installed
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of ArbitrationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID .***,and find that arbitration is necessarySincerely,Rochelle ***
We appreciate this response and would be happy to explainWork for us, begins as soon as a project is signedSince the homeowner's signed a contract, our office begins processing, planning, and ultimately, executing that remodelJust because the homeowners did not see us physically, at their home, does not mean that we were not working on itHere is an overview of the steps we’ve already invested to get this project where its stands today: I.Our design representative, Gary met with these homeowners and provided them with an inspection and estimateThe homeowners approved an agreementII.Our Production Coordinator reviewed the contract and determined what needed orderingHe scheduled the second measureIII.Our financial department ran down paymentIV.Our marketing team was in contact to answer any questionsV.Our senior measuring technician, along with Gary the design rep made the drive out to get the full perspective of work and confirm Gary’s initial measurementsVI.A third measurement was conducted which included; our senior measuring technician, a plumber from Cities Plumbing and GaryVII.Our business owner is involved, having conversations with both their representation and these homeownersVIII.Our marketing team stepped in to respond to the complaintNone of our employees work for freeThere are expenses incurred at every phase of a home-improvement projectThis project has been touched in one way or another by nine employees hereWe want to mention we are not always able to determine the full scope of plumbing without a technician’s inspectionIt was clear to everyone involved that the scope of plumbing work was larger and that is why an additional tech measure was performed in October with a licensed plumberThis is the reason that our contract mentions this factOur contract reads, “Owner holds the Contractor harmless from hidden or pre-existing conditionsExisting out of square and plumb conditions may require similar conditions in the new workContractor may change installation methods, as required, to comply with local building code requirements.” This is all at an additional cost to the customer as mentioned in our previous response“All pricing is based upon the existing observable conditions in each areaAny additional costs arising out of latent defects or obstructions discovered in the course of performing the work for this contract will be charged to the Owner as an additional charge." No bait and switch ever transpired as the homeowners signed a contract with full knowledge of the contract stipulationsIf every homeowner could disregard their contract like it never happened what would be the point in signing it? We will stand by the agreementThe homeowners may cancel their contract and receive their partial deposit of $2,
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 11, 2015/09/03) */ We would like to complete the project within the next weeksWe have been trying to start the project many times and have been told noHere is a timeline of events: The Project was Sold on 7/5/The additional down payment was given on 7/and the project 2nd measure was on 8/5/Due to scheduling backlog of previous projects and our plumbers not being available, This project was pushed out past the beginning of November (as discussed at second measure) to later in the monthThe Homeowners didn't want to get started around the Thanksgiving holiday so their project was scheduled for the week after thanksgivingThe homeowners decided a week before we started that they did not want the project done in the winter (because it was going to be too cold coming in and out of their home and they didn't want to deal with dumpsters on the street and snow emergenciesthey wouldn't have to but that wasn't taken into consideration by them)Gary (salesperson) decided to give them a discount if they held off (and did not cancel) until it warmed up to start the projectA New agreement stated we couldn't start work before April 15th and work needed to be finished by the end of JuneOn April 27th I called the homeowners and left a voice mail message stating we were looking at getting started on their project the First or second week in JuneAfter not hearing back from them I called them again and left another message on WedJune 3rd and told them we would like to get started the following Monday (6/8)A plumber was lined up and Material were allocatedOn Thursday June 4th [redacted] and [redacted] called me (on the line together) and were pretty belligerent with meThey said they have water in their basement and seeping through their walls and right now it wouldn't be wise to cover up the walls until the water issue was fixedThey kept using the phrase "putting a band-aid" on the problemI agreed to hold off until there wasn't any water and told them to let me know when they have the water issue fixed and we would startOn (7/7) [redacted] called in to speak with me (Brandon)She was belligerent, and angry, and all she would say is "I want my Money" She continued to threatened me by saying she was/is a police officer and I should give her their money (or else)I conferred with her and figured out that she was talking about her down paymentI told her I couldn't give that back to her but if her water issue was fixed we could certainly get started on her basement projectShe just kept demanding I give her money back and said she wanted interest and if she didn't get that by the end of the day tomorrow she was going to go to the Revdex.com and the attorney General etcI told her the only person who could make that decision is Dan the owner of Great LakesDan called her and he received the same responseAs stated before, we have all of the products we needs and would be happy to get started on their project as contractedWe only need them to allow us into their home which has been the biggest obstacle Initial Consumer Rebuttal / [redacted] (3000, 17, 2015/10/06) */ Thank you so much for re-sending me the infoI have no idea why I didn't get it the first timePlease re-open the caseOf course I disagree with most of the response from Great Lakes Window and SidingWhen all this first started on July 5th we were told it was a six week projectOur job was to be finished by fall of before the ground frozeSomeone from Great Lakes (I believe Brandon) called in November to start the project in DecemberDecember just didn't work for us for many reasonsToo cold to leave our dog outside, company coming for Christmas, the weatherWhen we discussed this with Great Lakes they seemed to understand and sent Gary out to sign a new contractThey gave us a nice discount on the second contract, because they knew they dropped the ball by not having the work completed within a reasonable time frameWe appreciated the discount, but added in the new contract the work would be completed by June 28th we were leaving townWe were reassured this wouldn't be a problemThe problem came when they called in June wanting to start the project we were originally told would take at least four but probably six weeksTherefore could not be completed by the agreed upon date of June 28thWhere the rest of the nonsense in their response comes in is beyond meI would just like my money backThey didn't do any work at all at my houseI have lived in my house for over years, the basement is damp, that is why we wanted the remodel in the first placeI take exceptional offense to the remark that they claim I said I was a Police Officer, I would never claim to be someone that I am notI have absolutely no reason toWhen I asked Chris for my money back I even told him he could keep any interest, I just wanted my money backHe just laughed and told me to sue him and I may see my money sometime in I am hoping that the Revdex.com can assist me in getting my $18,back from Great Lakes Window and Siding, it is a lot of money and they have no right to keep itI would prefer to have any interest made off my money sent to me as well, but would be settle for $18,I just don't understand why Great Lakes Window and Siding thinks they can keep my moneyThey violated the contact by not getting the project started and completed in timeWe really would like to move on and get another company to remodel our basement Final Consumer Response / [redacted] (3000, 20, 2015/10/22) */ Thank you so much for re-sending me the infoI have no idea why I didn't get it the first timePlease re-open the caseOf course I disagree with most of the response from Great Lakes Window and SidingWhen all this first started on July 5th we were told it was a six week projectOur job was to be finished by fall of before the ground frozeSomeone from Great Lakes (I believe Brandon) called in November to start the project in DecemberDecember just didn't work for us for many reasonsToo cold to leave our dog outside, company coming for Christmas, the weatherWhen we discussed this with Great Lakes they seemed to understand and sent Gary out to sign a new contractThey gave us a nice discount on the second contract, because they knew they dropped the ball by not having the work completed within a reasonable time frameWe appreciated the discount, but added in the new contract the work would be completed by June 28th we were leaving townWe were reassured this wouldn't be a problemThe problem came when they called in June wanting to start the project we were originally told would take at least four but probably six weeksTherefore could not be completed by the agreed upon date of June 28thWhere the rest of the nonsense in their response comes in is beyond meI would just like my money backThey didn't do any work at all at my houseI have lived in my house for over years, the basement is damp, that is why we wanted the remodel in the first placeI take exceptional offense to the remark that they claim I said I was a Police Officer, I would never claim to be someone that I am notI have absolutely no reason toWhen I asked Chris for my money back I even told him he could keep any interest, I just wanted my money backHe just laughed and told me to sue him and I may see my money sometime in I am hoping that the Revdex.com can assist me in getting my $18,back from Great Lakes Window and Siding, it is a lot of money and they have no right to keep itI would prefer to have any interest made off my money sent to me as well, but would be settle for $18,I just don't understand why Great Lakes Window and Siding thinks they can keep my moneyThey violated the contact by not getting the project started and completed in timeWe really would like to move on and get another company to remodel our basement Final Business Response / [redacted] (4000, 24, 2015/11/11) */ As mentioned before, We have been trying to and are willing to complete this projectWe have complied with all of their deadlines and other demands and have been extremely accommodatingI can appreciate that they have a new contractor that they would like to do this project, however they have a contract with us and we plan to honor that contract as is our right under Minnesota LawAny delay in completing this project is due to the actions of the aforementioned homeownersIn the state of Minnesota, there is a window of business days in which one can cancel a contract such as thisWe were well beyond that date before they decided to not honor their contractThe ball is in their court
I understand you are not satisfied with the end result of your project and for that we apologize and will continue to do what is in our power to remedy the situation We would be willing to install the two wall panels that came in last Friday and would be happy to include a new Shower Rod that was not charged for or on the contract The tile on your wall is most likely unreplaceable unless you would like to replace it in its entirety We do everything we can to reduce any damage to your home, but one thing we all have to remember is this is construction, and when dealing with existing situations, damage can occur no matter what precautions you take What we can do is replace the two side acrylic panels that you were unhappy with, see what we can do with your plaster wall in the closet, brace your walls for a scrshower rod, and install a new shower rod We feel this is very fair
The project was completed on 11/-- during her walk-through none of these items were brought up and our installer was given a "5" out of "5" in terms of satisfaction On Saturday the 26th, Ms [redacted] called into the office to complain (Plumbers did not clean up adequately in her basement)We apologized to her as she was correct in what she was saying and the installer was out there the following Wednesday (11/30) to clean up after the plumber and to spackle as much as we could of the wall around the access panel that had crumbled from removing the access panelOn that date, Ms [redacted] notified Rick our sales person and Brandon the production manager to let them know she was expecting a scrshower rod This was not on the contract and was not charged for It is not wise to put one up without bracing the wall prior to installationOn 12/14, Ms [redacted] faxed in a letter demanding the project be re-done with new tile and items that were not contracted for and for the response to be in writing via email We responded on 12/via emailMs [redacted] called in on 12/and left Brandon a message asking why nothing was being done Brandon responded the way she asked to receive correspondence (email) by emailing the response from the 14th stating what we will/will not be doing to fix her project Ms [redacted] replied on 12/with a "demand" letter Brandon Responded on 12/stating we would be getting back to her as soon as the wall panels are in Most of the correspondence hasn't been via phone, it has been via email I have every email that was sent back and forth from Kim and I The last email that was sent was on the 9th of this month explaining to her that we could replace the two side walls and try to do what we can with the plaster wall in the closet where the access panel is Outside of that, We cannot replace the existing tile that is there The two wall panels were delivered to us on Friday 1/and we have every intention to re-install them Worth noting Ms [redacted] confronted and berated our marketing staff (who know nothing about what has transpired) at the home and garden show over this weekendMs [redacted] is on my list to call in order to schedule her service She will be receiving a phone call today to do so
Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the consumer in reference to complaint ID [redacted] , and find that arbitration is necessary I am contacting you in regard to complaint ID # [redacted] from Rochelle [redacted] We (Great Lakes) would be interested in Revdex.com arbitration This issue has yet to be resolved Please let me know what the next step is Thank you-- Brandon ***
We are rejecting the response from Great Lakes Home Renovations because we don’t think that the response is reasonableWhomever wrote the response says that we have an agreement with them signed on 9/9/17, but our agreement was signed on 9/7/The response references a clause of the contract that discusses a price increase if “latent defects” are discovered “in the course of performing the work,” but the work never began and any observed defects would be patent – no walls were opened, no fixtures were removed, no work (other than a few measurements) was performedThe response references a “change order” but this is the first time we’ve heard of a change orderNothing about the work to be performed changed between the signing of the agreement and Great Lakes’ attempt to raise the cost of the workWe feel this is a classic example of “bait and switch”: after we have a signed agreement, they raise the price of the project and try to hold us to the agreementThey are withholding our deposit in bad faithWe’ve never seen a list of the “certain expenses” referenced in the responseWe’re willing to submit supporting documents to the Revdex.com if it helpsGreat Lakes has already received a copy of our documentation.Great Lakes has an A+ rating on the Revdex.com website, but their business practices are horribleHow can we get our money back? How can we stop this from happening to others?
I am rejecting this response because: Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vswhat we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation” On 09/20/206, the Bath Planet representative Brandon Hoehl arrived to discuss the project We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down paymentBased upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted] , performed the 2nd measure and site inspection There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work I figured we were good to go After approximately weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon ***, to get an installation updateI was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife ***, called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/ It was neither a commitment or confirmationWhen we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon The Installer arrived 12/as scheduled About minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drainThe Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work The installer went back to work He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” sizeThe shower base as delivered was inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle The installer spent more time on the phone than anything I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange” The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam” Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/confirming that this was not a nailing flange He was able to view my order with Bath Planet He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it workI’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time” I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way” He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business” He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent Again, zero communication The floor is being replaced by me, not Bath Planet Individuals, including Brandon ***, not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me This was not passed on to their designers Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolvedI had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issuesI helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need” He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about weeks to get it in I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s” No kiddingWe emailed the manufacturer on 12/and got a similar (weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) week delivery that Lowe’s provided I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment” Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way I told him that is not happening They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract Also not happeningI asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputesI emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size I then filed my Revdex.com complaint In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted] His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business” At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/Bath Planet’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problemsI doubt corporate Bath Planet national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this pointThreats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respectYou are failing many of your pledges and promises Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $coupon discount is questionable at best I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaintsOther consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and Bath Planet MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects Bath Planet should be able to return the damaged shower base The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications My resolution goal remains a refund of my depositI wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forwardThat is why we are at an impasse, Julie *** I am not a novice I built the house myself in the 70’sI have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:BPMN told us at the beginning of our project that our desire to maximize headroom in our shower could be accomplished by attaching the ceiling directly to the overhead joists They never said that in doing so there would be risk that the shower would be delivered with crooked walls and a bowing ceiling Regardless, review of the ceiling installation by a 3rd party contractor indicates that the “blocking” method used by BPMN to install the ceiling (directly to the joists in lieu of framing and sheetrock) isn’t what caused the ceiling to bow Instead, it was incorrect placement of the blocks to the lowest hanging joist Something that, if done correctly, would have prevented the ceiling from bowing Documentation of this assessment was provide to BPMN but no follow up/feedback was received In addition, if any defects/issues with the shower relate to incorrect framing (as BPMN has claimed), they are still held responsible since it was work contracted by them, not us We should not be forced to pay for, and live with, a poorly installed shower because BPMN failed to manage and inspect the work performed by their subcontractor (framing) and their employees (ceiling “blocking”) We agree with BPMN’s assessment that there was nearly weekly contact between us but only because we initiated it And yes, calls were made to both the office and personal cell phones of the production manager (PM) but only because these were the numbers given to us Our phone records show that between 09/03/and 02/10/16, calls were placed between us and the PM’s office or cell phone We initiated of the office calls and of the cell phone callsOnly calls reflect a weekend day, both on Saturday and both to the office number I think these numbers are a good reflection of how one sided our communication with BPMN was throughout the course of our project In addition, the earliest call was at 09:02AM and the latest at 5:55PM In addition, if at any time we were told to restrict our calls to specific numbers and times, we most assuredly would have complied.Once the BPMN work begin in November, the PM made only visits to our houseNone were to discuss the details of our project or to review/inspect the progress of the work as it was delivered The first visit was in November when BPMN’s framer brought two light a possible issue relating to two small pipes that infringed into the area above the showerThe PM came on site, took pictures and told us that “no” the pipes would not pose any problemsNo additional details were provided The PM’s second visit was in December on the day the interior bathroom finishing and shower install was to beginWe asked him to come to the house when we were told by the installers that they had been instructed to install a soffit to address pipes that hung over the showerThe PM never told us a soffit was to be installed and should have known that would not be agreeable with us given we had clearly communicated at the startup of our project that we wanted to do everything possible to maximize headroom At this point we had no other choice but to incur the additional cost and time to have relocate the pipes It was our hope that BPMN would provide us some type of financial consideration since we felt this issue could have been prevented if it had been identified and addressed earlier in the project For example, we could have avoided the pipes altogether by shortening the length of our bathroom by inches, or we could have had the pipes relocated in the months leading up to the bathroom install which would have prevented the one month delay A late night phone call with the owner resulted in no such relief The owner was abrasive, intimidating and flatly refused to accept any responsibility The PM’s third visit to our home was in January when we refused to make final payment At our insistence he was accompanied by the business owner, who as we pointed out in our original complaint, refused to accept any responsibility for the flaws/defects in what BPMN had delivered We do not agree with BPMN’s assessment that the wall and ceiling finishing defects were “minor” When the PM and owner came to our home to view the completed bathroom and the defects for which final payment was being withheld, we had placed at least two dozen pieces of blue tape on the walls and ceilings where flaws were found We can provide photos if necessary.We take exception to BPMN’s feedback that we were satisfied and “signed off” on the work and only voiced our concerns when final payment was requested The so call “sign off” was presented to us as the BPMN workers were rushing out the door In fact one of the workers was sitting out in the truck with the engine running We were advised by an employee that he was mandated by BPMN to get the completed form before leaving the site We fully regret not pushing back and refusing to complete it until we had more time to thoroughly inspect the work (w/o tools and equipment impeding our full access and w/o the BPMN worker looking over our shoulder) It is also important to point out that in completing the form we included a number of comments highlighting our complete dissatisfaction with the way in BPMN had managed our project including complete lack of communication and customer serviceAt the same time as sign off, we were also asked to make final payment The fact that we refused to do so, reflects our dissatisfaction with what had been delivered Also, I would like to point out that in terms of sign off, BPMN didn’t come anywhere close to delivering upon what they have stated in their Exclusive Guarantee It states “we will review the end-of-project review form with you BEFORE beginning the installation of your new bathroomIf you cannot rate us as Outstanding on any criteria at the end of the installation, tell us – and we will make it rightWe do not believe in “good enough” In addition, the Guarantee states “within two weeks of installation an independent Customer Research/Survey company will contact you to get your unfiltered and unbiased assessment of our company We take this feedback very seriously ” We were never contacted to provide suchfeedbackIn terms of the injured employee we know his ability to perform was impeded by his hand injury, whatever the type He dropped a slab of sheetrock resulting in the need for a third employee to be called onsite to help carry sheetrock on his behalf We also witnessed him having difficulty carrying a heavy piece of equipment resulting in him putting a “ding” in a wall which was then patched.In terms of BPMN employees performing non licensed plumbing work feedback from our contracted plumber is that one of the BPMN shower installers removed an inner wall faucet plate used to help provide stabilization to the exterior faucet when attached The removal of the plate should have been discussed with the contracted plumber who installed it If removal was deemed necessary, it should have been removed by the plumber, not the BPMN installer Additionally, we contracted and paid the plumbing service to install the shower head and faucet It should not have been installed by BPMN resulting in the faucet being installed "crooked" with blame being placed on the contracted plumbing service.Our originally communicated desired resolution remains unchanged Sincerely, [redacted]
First off, I would like to say Thank you to [redacted] for his returned and referral business It is greatly appreciatedThe products we use/sell/install are all great products that carry warranties from their manufacturers (we are not a manufacturer) These warranties cover manufacturing defects and nearly all of them will replace the product if it is determined by the manufacturer to be defective Although the product is covered, the labor to replace/fix the defects are not That being said, there are certain items that are not covered under warranty -- one of those items is caulking This is clearly stated in our warranty as well as the warranties from our siding and window manufacturersUnfortunately there isn't a sealant/caulking out there that has been proven to last a lifetime of the homeIn regard to our to this specific instance, [redacted] called in a service request for caulking, we notified him of our service procedure and pricing This is not the first time he has been notified of our service procedure and pricing and should not have been surprised He asked for the matching caulking and said he would do the touwork himself We did not have that color match (we do not stock caulking in our warehouse), but told him where he could get that specific color from the manufacturer (less than mins away from his home) and told him it would be quicker if he picked it up than if we scheduled a time to pick them upBecause of this suggestion, [redacted] came in to our showroom and verbally berated our receptionist with a multiple letter word tirade that left this person shaken and very upset No one should be treated this way while at workIn an effort to curtail this scenario from happening again, we picked up OSI quad caulking that would work with his color siding and notified [redacted] that we had it He told us he would pick the caulking up and did so on Tuesday June 27th We have worked with [redacted] on other service issues on a case by case basis and have been very fair with him as we would with any other customers of ours I think now more than ever, we cannot make exceptions on a case by case basis with him as we have in the past We have to treat all of our customers exactly the same way The caulking was installed correctlyThe reason it is "cracking " is due to age (over years old) and required maintenance We certainly wish [redacted] didn't feel this way We thank him for his business and will continue to do great service in accordance to his warranty on his home as needed Brandon [redacted] Great Lakes Home Renovations Apple Valley, MN ###-###-####
Unfortunately there seems to be a misunderstanding between what the homeowner's were thinking they were receiving and what they signed up for We apologize for any part we played in that misunderstanding, but we do everything we can to make sure there is very little interpretation in what our customers are purchasing and we are certain this is the case in this situation as well In order to have the shape and size of shower pan that Mr and Mrs [redacted] want with a wall being built along one section of it, there needs to be a narrow end to accommodate a nailing flange on the side the wall is constructed The measurements "60x36" are taken at the widest point In order to accommodate the narrow end to be 36" on the inside, we would need the long side to be over 40" long which is considerably more expensive and also wouldn't be possible due to an HVAC vent at approximately 37" mark In remodeling, we are sometimes constrained to existing situations The shower pan did have a chip in the nailing flange and we informed the homeowners that we would be happy to re-order a new shower pan but informed the homeowners that no size modifications could be madeThe homeowners told us not to re-order the shower pan We would love to continue this project if the homeowner but are left at an impasse We will not be refunding the down payment the homeowner is looking for We have many material and labor costs associated with their project We have a contract with the homeowner that we have a legal obligation to upholdWe hope the homeowners will allow us into their home to complete the project and we thank them for their business
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of MediationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.] Revdex.com: I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted] ,and find that Mediation is necessary Regards, [redacted] ***
We are very sorry to hear Mr and Mrs [redacted] are unhappy with their project.We have made several attempts to work on a resolution to their concerns but all attempts have been denied. Jeff met with the homeowners on November 15th 2016.He handled this project as he does all his projects and gave... no misleading or false information. Upon that meeting, the homeowners signed a contract for a full kitchen remodel including a new center island. On December 14, our call center received an email asking for an update about their project. Jeff met with the homeowners the very next day and the center island design was approved. We cannot order anything without written approval from the homeowner which was given to us on Dec 15th 2016. Material was ordered and install was scheduled for January 20th 2017. On January 24thJeff met with the homeowners again to go over the installation and answer any questions. At that point the homeowners requested custom paneling for the center island at no additional cost to them.This product was immediately ordered to satisfy the customer. These panels are very "custom" and take time to build templates for, write code for the routing machines and assembly.This is a very costly endeavor ($1,100.00) which Great Lakes was willing to undertake in order to make the customer satisfied with their project.When the panels arrived, our kitchen Installer called the homeowners to ask when he could be out to install them. At that point the homeowners refused further installation processes and told him they would be finding someone else to finish their kitchen project.An invoice was sent to Mr and Mrs [redacted] for the work completed.As of today (Wednesday March 8th) NO payment has been received outside of the agreed upon down payment. As for the statement on the timeline, the website states “kitchen installation will be finished in a matter of days”, it does not say “a few days”. Kitchen remodels to this scale cannot be completed in "a few days" even if we had two overnight crews. Our expected time-frame was correct until the homeowners refused any additional installation. It was the homeowner’s choice to close the doors to us, however it does not change what was agreed to in the original contract. All work Great Lakes completed is how it would be done in every home and is how it is done by the manufacturer, and is keeping with industry standard. Great Lakes is willing to deduct $500 from the final balance to put toward the damaged stove top. This is not an admission of responsibility, rather a goodwill gesture. We would also, as has been reiterated to the homeowner multiple times, request the opportunity to take care of any service items and address any concerns the homeowner may have.
We are very aware of the location the homeowner is hearing the squeak from [redacted] our production manager was made to get into the tub and step on said "Back" area of the tub The homeowners are worried there is some "give" and a squeak The product will/was meant to flex At the time of inspection by our Production manager, the only squeak her heard was from the floor We are well aware they do not believe the squeak is taking place on their floor In any case, if the homeowner believes there is a defect in the product, they will need to submit a warranty claim to the company that manufactured the product This company is not our companyThe contact information should be on their warranty If they no longer have this information, they can contact our office and we can provide them with this information
Initial Business Response / [redacted] (1000, 9, 2014/09/02) */ Great Lakes Window & Siding Co mailed out check # XXXXX as a refund including interest per consumer's desired resolution
We completed this project on 9/14/ In mid-November, the homeowners contacted Great Lakes to say there was a slight "Squeak" when they would step in a certain area of the bathtub The homeowners were assured that what they are experiencing is very normal You have a very heavy
cast-iron tub (or something similar) that was there for quite some time, that is removed and replaced with a much lighter product that has some "give" to it in certain areas There is some settling that happens and sometimes there is a squeak in the floorThis is not uncommon The homeowner called again January 11th They spoke with *** our production manager*** once again assured them that there is nothing wrong with the tub itself but if they would like, he would go out to their home and check everything out himselfThese are the notes from that visit on Monday 1/25/2016: "I (***) was out there on Monday (1/25) at 11am to check it out I stood in the area where it "Squeaks" and there were no Squeaks The homeowner became very agitated because it wasn't squeaking He stepped into the tub and with his whole body weight was practically jumping on the back of his tub (an area which isn't usually stepped on) and there was a slight giveOutside of that, there was a slight "creek" that was clearly caused by his floor boards I told him he didn't have anything to worry about and that his tub is just fineHe Yelled at me to get out of his house immediately." -- During all of the interactions with Mrand Mrs***, they were treated with the utmost respect and professionalism Outside of not agreeing with the homeowners, at no time was there an interaction that would be considered "Rude" and we apologize if the homeowner felt that way Bottom line: The homeowners can rest assured there is nothing wrong with their bathtubIf there is ever anything that happens due to defect, we would be happy to submit a warranty claim on the homeowner's behalf
We apologize for the dissatisfaction Mrand Ms*** have. I will respond to specifics of the project. We were out to install a shower base and walls. After demolition we discovered a vented flex vent bath fan being run beneath the existing tub in a way that is not up to
code. We had to disconnect the flex vent piping (knowing it would need to be re-routed to meet code compliance) to install the new shower pan per our contract. We notified a plumber (also an HVAC professional) of the flex piping situation, and he gave a vague ball-park quote of $for that type of work without seeing the project. We notified the homeowner who was on-site that there may be additional charges involved with moving that flex piping. When the plumber arrived on-site, both he and the city inspector verified that there would be no way to properly run an exhaust fan vent into the wall cavity it was originally running through and both gave the assessment that it would have to be vented via alternative means. This is work we do not do. It is true what was said to the homeowners, we are not an HVAC company. This is outside of our original scope of work, therefore we proceeded as contracted. We did however give a couple of recommendations of companies that we have worked with in the past that do this sort of work. During the entire process, we have been very forthcoming to the fact that we cannot see behind walls or under floors until the demolition occurs. In certain instances, such as this, we run into issues we cannot foresee. In these instances we work with the homeowner on working toward solutions to their problems. As for the wall installation issues, we all have to be aware that we are always working with existing situations. There is never a completely "square" and "plum" wall in homesWe have to account for those issues by cutting our wall panels in such a way to account for those shortcomings. This is not easy, it is done on-site and in some cases the cuts are not 100% perfect. There are variations in existing mud and sheetrock and the 1/2" Dens-shield we install on the backing to the tune of 1/6"-1/8". This is fairly and we run into this issue all the time. The adhesive we place on the wall panels accounts for between 1/8" and 3/16" of space. Our main objective is to make the wall panel as flat as possible and in such instances have to use thicker adhesive to build up depressions in the wall to even everything out. As for the variation in cut sizes, what is being discussed is a wall panel that is covered up and will not be seen. When installing our back panels, we need to keep gaps of a minimum of 1/8" to 1/4" to account for expansion and contraction. In this situation, as is a common occurrence, there is an accumulation of mud and paint in the corner of sheetrock that we need to account for. What is present is a cut that accounts for the wall changes and what is present is a small area between the dens shield and wall panel equally aprox5/16" over a very small area and narrowing to 1/4" or less just above it where the wall panel meets the sheetrock. Is it perfect? No, it is not. However, it is in my professional opinion that it will have no effect on the performance of the wall system once installed. If the homeowner would like to work with us on some solutions to this, we would be more than happy to make sure they are satisfied with the results and their minds are put to ease to the solutions we come up withWe value Mr and Mrs***'s business greatly, and look forward to working with them on their service issues
There are issues with their project and most of those issues stem from their floor joists (basement ceiling) which could have been addressed had we installed framing below the joists to hang sheetrock onThe homeowner did not want this to happen due to ceiling height restraintsThe homeowner
initially signed off on everything and said they were very satisfied, until pressed for final paymentThere were small touissues in the mud/taping and some silicone that "shrunk" slightly which is to be expected and which we were happy to take care ofMind you, the homeowner did not allow us to come back to fix those issuesThey decided to hire someone else
The homeowners and our staff were in contact nearly weeklyThe homeowners called personal cell phones to talk about the project at all hours of the day as late as 9pm and also on the weekendsThose phone calls primarily were not answered until the following business dayWe had made it clear that communication should be during business hours and through the office but the homeowners refused to do soIn addition to always calling them back in a timely manner, there were several visits to their homeThere were changes to their project and parts of those changes included the homeowner getting their own sub-contractors for work we do not doWe needed that work (once again, we do not do this type of work) to be done before we started our portion of the project (which to most people this seems reasonable) and didn't think it was too much of a burden to ask they contact us when that portion of the work was finishing upAs soon as the project started, we worked very close with the sub-contractors hired by the homeownerAs for the "specs" of the shower, the only specs that were asked for or questions asked were specs on the shower pan which was given to the plumber at his requestIt is also worth noting that the production manager got these specs to the plumber at the drop of a hat while he was on vacation with his familyThe production manager was never notified in the days leading up to the plumber needing the specs or else the specs would have been available for the plumber without the production manager's helpWhen they inquired, the plumber and the homeowner were notified that the production manager was on vacation and would be back days laterThis was not ok with the homeowners and they took it upon themselves to call the personal cell phone of this person and demand the specs be givenThe production manager took nearly hours out of his family's time to make sure the plumber had this informationIt's pretty shocking to see anything else written to the contrary
As for the other absurd issues such as an "injured" employee and working without a plumbing license, one of our two installers had a deep cut (completely unrelated to this project) to two of his fingers and had stichesHe didn't have a "cast" on his hand, he had two of his fingers "wrapped" so his stiches would not be exposedHe was in no way unable to perform his job and it is absurd to say anything elseAs for the plumbing issues, we did not install the shower plumbing/faucetThat was installed (and inspected) by their plumberThe only thing that was installed was the "trim kit" that goes on outside of the plumbing fixtureNothing that requires ANY plumbing and/or a plumbing licenseTo infer there was anything done outside a building contractors license is dangerous and wildly inaccurate
We eventually came to an agreement to reduce the balance due by a pretty hefty $We thought this was more than fairThe homeowners agreed it was fair as wellAfter a few days they retracted their approval and said they would be paying all sub-contractors on their ownWe have not had any additional contact with them since
We provided all services and products that the homeowner and our company agreed to in writing for the contracted price we both agreed to in writingWe have worked with these homeowners in regard to all changes and differences in scope of workEvery time there were changes to the scope of work there were meetings with at least one of the homeowners and changes to price/product were put in writing every timeEverything that was done on this project was agreed to by both the homeowner and our company including the price of everythingIf the homeowner does not feel they received a fair price for the products/services they received they are just as much to blame as our company and objection should have been addressed in the bidding/contracting stageNo additional discounts will be given in addition to the discount of $1,that was already givenAny outstanding warranty/service issues will be taken care of as contractedAll liens will be released as soon as the agreed upon contract amount is paid to Great LakesIf for some reason the homeowners have not paid the sub-contractors directly as they stated they would, we will do so immediately
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ***, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.We have spoken with Brandon at Great Lakes regarding our complaint #***He has agreed to send us a check for the wall
We would like to remove our complaint as this has been resolved. Thank you,Nathan ***
I am rejecting this response because: I have spoken with the owner of the company and came to another resolutionHe said that since the plumbing was set up for an offset vanity top he would order it and send out the installer to finish the job when it comes inI agreed to pay the balance due when the vanity top, the vent cover and the decorative piece for the tub faucet is installed
[A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of ArbitrationIf you wish, you may update it before sending it.]Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID .***,and find that arbitration is necessarySincerely,Rochelle ***