Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the consumer in reference to complaint ID .[redacted], and find that arbitration is necessary.
I am contacting you in regard to complaint ID #[redacted] from Rochelle [redacted]. We (Great Lakes) would be interested in Revdex.com arbitration. This issue has yet to be resolved. Please let me know what the next step is. Thank you. -- Brandon [redacted]
I understand you are not satisfied with the end result of your project and for that we apologize and will continue to do what is in our power to remedy the situation. We would be willing to install the two wall panels that came in last Friday and would be happy to include a new Shower Rod that was not charged for or on the contract. The tile on your wall is most likely unreplaceable unless you would like to replace it in its entirety. We do everything we can to reduce any damage to your home, but one thing we all have to remember is this is construction, and when dealing with existing situations, damage can occur no matter what precautions you take. What we can do is replace the two side acrylic panels that you were unhappy with, see what we can do with your plaster wall in the closet, brace your walls for a screw-in shower rod, and install a new shower rod. We feel this is very fair.
I am rejecting this response because:
Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vs. what we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired. The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair. We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected. Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $1000 off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation”. On 09/20/206, the Bath Planet representative Brandon Hoehl arrived to discuss the project . We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements. With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-8 weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down payment. Based upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues. On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted], performed the 2nd measure and site inspection. There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work. I figured we were good to go. After approximately 6 weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon [redacted], to get an installation update. I was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived. We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife [redacted], called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule. She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/12. It was neither a commitment or confirmation. When we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/2016 for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon. The Installer arrived 12/12 as scheduled. About 90 minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work. The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drain. The Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work. The installer went back to work. He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about 2 inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit. When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a 4 inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit. I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone. I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him. The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” size. The shower base as delivered was 31.5 inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced. The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle. The installer spent more time on the phone than anything. I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation. He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues. Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable. In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange”. The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam”. Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/13 confirming that this was not a nailing flange. He was able to view my order with Bath Planet . He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information. Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs. Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it work. I’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time”. I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit. I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange. During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it. He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time. I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust. He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way”. He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business”. He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent. Again, zero communication. The floor is being replaced by me, not Bath Planet. Individuals, including Brandon [redacted], not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified. So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me. The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me. This was not passed on to their designers. Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one. At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up. I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base. He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections. I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolved. I had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back. In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out. I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issues. I helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out. When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming. He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need”. He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about 8 weeks to get it in. I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about 3 weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s”. No kidding. We emailed the manufacturer on 12/12 and got a similar (2 weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) 3 week delivery that Lowe’s provided. I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower. Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment”. Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/11 in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way. I told him that is not happening. They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract. Also not happening. I asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number. I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputes. I emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size. I then filed my Revdex.com complaint. In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered. It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project. The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform. I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits. Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful. Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense. If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses. Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted]. His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing. We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business”. At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager. Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do. With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error. The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least. My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues. It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/Bath Planet’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed. Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problems. I doubt corporate Bath Planet national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to. I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this point. Threats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respect. You are failing many of your pledges and promises. Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $1000 coupon discount is questionable at best. I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaints. Other consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and Bath Planet MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects. Bath Planet should be able to return the damaged shower base. The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications. My resolution goal remains a refund of my deposit. I wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forward. That is why we are at an impasse, Julie [redacted]. I am not a novice. I built the house myself in the 70’s. I have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues. I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems. I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered. I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved.
The project was completed on 11/23 -- during her walk-through none of these items were brought up and our installer was given a "5" out of "5" in terms of satisfaction. On Saturday the 26th, Ms. [redacted] called into the office to complain (Plumbers did not clean up adequately in her...
basement). We apologized to her as she was correct in what she was saying and the installer was out there the following Wednesday (11/30) to clean up after the plumber and to spackle as much as we could of the wall around the access panel that had crumbled from removing the access panel. On that date, Ms. [redacted] notified Rick our sales person and Brandon the production manager to let them know she was expecting a screw-in shower rod. This was not on the contract and was not charged for. It is not wise to put one up without bracing the wall prior to installation. On 12/14, Ms. [redacted] faxed in a letter demanding the project be re-done with new tile and items that were not contracted for and for the response to be in writing via email. We responded on 12/14 via email. Ms. [redacted] called in on 12/22 and left Brandon a message asking why nothing was being done. Brandon responded the way she asked to receive correspondence (email) by emailing the response from the 14th stating what we will/will not be doing to fix her project. Ms. [redacted] replied on 12/29 with a "demand" letter. Brandon Responded on 12/29 stating we would be getting back to her as soon as the 2 wall panels are in. Most of the correspondence hasn't been via phone, it has been via email. I have every email that was sent back and forth from Kim and I. The last email that was sent was on the 9th of this month explaining to her that we could replace the two side walls and try to do what we can with the plaster wall in the closet where the access panel is. Outside of that, We cannot replace the existing tile that is there. The two wall panels were delivered to us on Friday 1/27 and we have every intention to re-install them. Worth noting Ms. [redacted] confronted and berated our marketing staff (who know nothing about what has transpired) at the home and garden show over this weekend. Ms [redacted] is on my list to call in order to schedule her service. She will be receiving a phone call today to do so.
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:BPMN told us at the beginning of our project that our desire to maximize headroom in our shower could be accomplished by attaching the ceiling directly to the overhead joists. They never said that in doing so there would be risk that the shower would be delivered with crooked walls and a bowing ceiling. Regardless, review of the ceiling installation by a 3rd party contractor indicates that the “blocking” method used by BPMN to install the ceiling (directly to the joists in lieu of framing and sheetrock) isn’t what caused the ceiling to bow. Instead, it was incorrect placement of the blocks to the lowest hanging joist. Something that, if done correctly, would have prevented the ceiling from bowing. Documentation of this assessment was provide to BPMN but no follow up/feedback was received. In addition, if any defects/issues with the shower relate to incorrect framing (as BPMN has claimed), they are still held responsible since it was work contracted by them, not us. We should not be forced to pay for, and live with, a poorly installed shower because BPMN failed to manage and inspect the work performed by their subcontractor (framing) and their employees (ceiling “blocking”). We agree with BPMN’s assessment that there was nearly weekly contact between us but only because we initiated it. And yes, calls were made to both the office and personal cell phones of the production manager (PM) but only because these were the numbers given to us. Our phone records show that between 09/03/15 and 02/10/16, 56 calls were placed between us and the PM’s office or cell phone. We initiated 29 of the 36 office calls and 17 of the 20 cell phone calls. Only 2 calls reflect a weekend day, both on Saturday and both to the office number. I think these numbers are a good reflection of how one sided our communication with BPMN was throughout the course of our project. In addition, the earliest call was at 09:02AM and the latest at 5:55PM. In addition, if at any time we were told to restrict our calls to specific numbers and times, we most assuredly would have complied.Once the BPMN work begin in November, the PM made only 3 visits to our house. None were to discuss the details of our project or to review/inspect the progress of the work as it was delivered. The first visit was in November when BPMN’s framer brought two light a possible issue relating to two small pipes that infringed into the area above the shower. The PM came on site, took pictures and told us that “no” the pipes would not pose any problems. No additional details were provided. The PM’s second visit was in December on the day the interior bathroom finishing and shower install was to begin. We asked him to come to the house when we were told by the installers that they had been instructed to install a soffit to address pipes that hung over the shower. The PM never told us a soffit was to be installed and should have known that would not be agreeable with us given we had clearly communicated at the startup of our project that we wanted to do everything possible to maximize headroom. At this point we had no other choice but to incur the additional cost and time to have relocate the pipes. It was our hope that BPMN would provide us some type of financial consideration since we felt this issue could have been prevented if it had been identified and addressed earlier in the project. For example, we could have avoided the pipes altogether by shortening the length of our bathroom by 2 inches, or we could have had the pipes relocated in the months leading up to the bathroom install which would have prevented the one month delay. A late night phone call with the owner resulted in no such relief. The owner was abrasive, intimidating and flatly refused to accept any responsibility. The PM’s third visit to our home was in January when we refused to make final payment. At our insistence he was accompanied by the business owner, who as we pointed out in our original complaint, refused to accept any responsibility for the flaws/defects in what BPMN had delivered. We do not agree with BPMN’s assessment that the wall and ceiling finishing defects were “minor”. When the PM and owner came to our home to view the completed bathroom and the defects for which final payment was being withheld, we had placed at least two dozen pieces of blue tape on the walls and ceilings where flaws were found. We can provide photos if necessary.We take exception to BPMN’s feedback that we were satisfied and “signed off” on the work and only voiced our concerns when final payment was requested. The so call “sign off” was presented to us as the BPMN workers were rushing out the door. In fact one of the workers was sitting out in the truck with the engine running. We were advised by an employee that he was mandated by BPMN to get the completed form before leaving the site. We fully regret not pushing back and refusing to complete it until we had more time to thoroughly inspect the work (w/o tools and equipment impeding our full access and w/o the BPMN worker looking over our shoulder). It is also important to point out that in completing the form we included a number of comments highlighting our complete dissatisfaction with the way in BPMN had managed our project including complete lack of communication and customer service. At the same time as sign off, we were also asked to make final payment. The fact that we refused to do so, reflects our dissatisfaction with what had been delivered. Also, I would like to point out that in terms of sign off, BPMN didn’t come anywhere close to delivering upon what they have stated in their Exclusive Guarantee. It states “we will review the end-of-project review form with you BEFORE beginning the installation of your new bathroom. If you cannot rate us as Outstanding on any criteria at the end of the installation, tell us – and we will make it right. We do not believe in “good enough”. In addition, the Guarantee states “within two weeks of installation an independent Customer Research/Survey company will contact you to get your unfiltered and unbiased assessment of our company. We take this feedback very seriously…” We were never contacted to provide suchfeedback. In terms of the injured employee…we know his ability to perform was impeded by his hand injury, whatever the type. He dropped a slab of sheetrock resulting in the need for a third employee to be called onsite to help carry sheetrock on his behalf. We also witnessed him having difficulty carrying a heavy piece of equipment resulting in him putting a “ding” in a wall which was then patched.In terms of BPMN employees performing non licensed plumbing work…feedback from our contracted plumber is that one of the BPMN shower installers removed an inner wall faucet plate used to help provide stabilization to the exterior faucet when attached. The removal of the plate should have been discussed with the contracted plumber who installed it. If removal was deemed necessary, it should have been removed by the plumber, not the BPMN installer. Additionally, we contracted and paid the plumbing service to install the shower head and faucet. It should not have been installed by BPMN resulting in the faucet being installed "crooked" with blame being placed on the contracted plumbing service.Our originally communicated desired resolution remains unchanged.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
I am rejecting this response because: We are unsure as to where the manager and owner are arriving at this information, they must be confusing us with another complainant. Since day one of calling to make the complaint we referenced to "the top back of the bathtub", NOT the bottom of the tub. This is what we have been trying to get across to both of these men. When we first called and complained, the installer was sent out to our home and agreed that the tub had a squeak. The installer cut/scraped away all of the caulk on "the top back of the tub" against the outside wall and recaulked everything to try and eliminate the squeak. When the squeak continued is when we called back and asked to speak to the manager. I [redacted] spoke to him and I too became very frustrated with him as he would only reference the floor settling and moving causing the squeak. I tried telling him it had nothing to do with the bottom of the tub or the floor, but he would not listen. He stated he would come out but it wouldn't change anything as the house/floor was settling. [redacted] did meet with him and too becme frustrated amd told him to leave as he would not listen to what [redacted] was saying that it is the "top back of the bathtub" and you would need to sit down lean back against the back of the tub in order to hear the squeak.
I am rejecting this response because: the tiles on the wall and on the floor that the company damaged have to be fixed and I should not be responsible for paying for something the company and their workers damaged. The wall in the second bedroom needs to be fixed as the company/their workers damaged the wall. As far as the shower curtain rod, why was a shower head put in the shower if there was no intention of putting in a shower curtain rod. Rick advised me to take the old shower curtain rod down in preparation for the new curtain rod installation. As far as giving the job a satisfaction rate of 5 out of 5 - that was Johnny's doings not mine. There was no walk through - Johnny was waiting for me to return home to get final payment for the installation - drinking beer in his truck while he waited, I was not about to argue with a grow man who had been drinking. Yes, Johnny came back two days later to take away a piece of cut pipe that was in left in the basement and to sweep the basement. But this is neither here nor there - the floor tiles, wall tiles and the bedroom closet wall were not damaged prior to the installation and they need to be fixed to pre-installation status. And since Rick "forgot" to put a shower curtain rod in the contract one should be installed when the new panels are put in as a courtesy for the inconvenience that I have gone through for over two months. And as a side-note, I did not harass anyone at the Home Improvement show, I merely stated the unprofessional job and lack of communication (with Brandon) to address/fix the problems/issues with this particular installation. I am asking that my home be returned to the pre-installation condition as when this company and their workers started the project. The company has been paid in full and I am not satisfied with the project.
I am rejecting this response because:
Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vs. what we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired. The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair. We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected. Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $1000 off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation”. On 09/20/206, the [redacted] representative Brandon [redacted] arrived to discuss the project . We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements. With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-8 weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down payment. Based upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues. On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted], performed the 2nd measure and site inspection. There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work. I figured we were good to go. After approximately 6 weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon [redacted], to get an installation update. I was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived. We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife [redacted], called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule. She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/12. It was neither a commitment or confirmation. When we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/2016 for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon. The Installer arrived 12/12 as scheduled. About 90 minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work. The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drain. The Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work. The installer went back to work. He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about 2 inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit. When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a 4 inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit. I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone. I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him. The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” size. The shower base as delivered was 31.5 inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced. The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle. The installer spent more time on the phone than anything. I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation. He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues. Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable. In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange”. The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam”. Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/13 confirming that this was not a nailing flange. He was able to view my order with [redacted] . He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information. Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs. Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it work. I’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time”. I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit. I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange. During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it. He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time. I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust. He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way”. He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business”. He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent. Again, zero communication. The floor is being replaced by me, not [redacted]. Individuals, including Brandon [redacted], not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified. So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me. The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me. This was not passed on to their designers. Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one. At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up. I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base. He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections. I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolved. I had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back. In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out. I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issues. I helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out. When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming. He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need”. He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about 8 weeks to get it in. I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about 3 weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s”. No kidding. We emailed the manufacturer on 12/12 and got a similar (2 weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) 3 week delivery that Lowe’s provided. I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower. Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment”. Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/11 in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way. I told him that is not happening. They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract. Also not happening. I asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number. I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputes. I emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size. I then filed my Revdex.com complaint. In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/[redacted] MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered. It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project. The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform. I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits. Great Lakes Window & Siding/[redacted] failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful. Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense. If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses. Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted]. His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing. We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business”. At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager. Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do. With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error. The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least. My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues. It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/[redacted]’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed. Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problems. I doubt corporate [redacted] national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to. I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this point. Threats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respect. You are failing many of your pledges and promises. Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $1000 coupon discount is questionable at best. I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaints. Other consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and [redacted] MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects. [redacted] should be able to return the damaged shower base. The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications. My resolution goal remains a refund of my deposit. I wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forward. That is why we are at an impasse, Julie [redacted]. I am not a novice. I built the house myself in the 70’s. I have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues. I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems. I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered. I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved.
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the consumer in reference to complaint ID .[redacted], and find that arbitration is necessary.
I am contacting you in regard to complaint ID #[redacted] from Rochelle [redacted]. We (Great Lakes) would be interested in Revdex.com arbitration. This issue has yet to be resolved. Please let me know what the next step is. Thank you. -- Brandon [redacted]
I understand you are not satisfied with the end result of your project and for that we apologize and will continue to do what is in our power to remedy the situation. We would be willing to install the two wall panels that came in last Friday and would be happy to include a new Shower Rod that was not charged for or on the contract. The tile on your wall is most likely unreplaceable unless you would like to replace it in its entirety. We do everything we can to reduce any damage to your home, but one thing we all have to remember is this is construction, and when dealing with existing situations, damage can occur no matter what precautions you take. What we can do is replace the two side acrylic panels that you were unhappy with, see what we can do with your plaster wall in the closet, brace your walls for a screw-in shower rod, and install a new shower rod. We feel this is very fair.
I am rejecting this response because:
Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vs. what we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired. The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair. We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected. Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $1000 off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation”. On 09/20/206, the Bath Planet representative Brandon Hoehl arrived to discuss the project . We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements. With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-8 weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down payment. Based upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues. On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted], performed the 2nd measure and site inspection. There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work. I figured we were good to go. After approximately 6 weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon [redacted], to get an installation update. I was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived. We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife [redacted], called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule. She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/12. It was neither a commitment or confirmation. When we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/2016 for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon. The Installer arrived 12/12 as scheduled. About 90 minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work. The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drain. The Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work. The installer went back to work. He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about 2 inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit. When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a 4 inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit. I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone. I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him. The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” size. The shower base as delivered was 31.5 inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced. The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle. The installer spent more time on the phone than anything. I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation. He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues. Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable. In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange”. The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam”. Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/13 confirming that this was not a nailing flange. He was able to view my order with Bath Planet . He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information. Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs. Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it work. I’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time”. I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit. I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange. During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it. He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time. I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust. He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way”. He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business”. He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent. Again, zero communication. The floor is being replaced by me, not Bath Planet. Individuals, including Brandon [redacted], not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified. So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me. The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me. This was not passed on to their designers. Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one. At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up. I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base. He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections. I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolved. I had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back. In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out. I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issues. I helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out. When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming. He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need”. He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about 8 weeks to get it in. I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about 3 weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s”. No kidding. We emailed the manufacturer on 12/12 and got a similar (2 weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) 3 week delivery that Lowe’s provided. I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower. Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment”. Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/11 in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way. I told him that is not happening. They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract. Also not happening. I asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number. I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputes. I emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size. I then filed my Revdex.com complaint. In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered. It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project. The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform. I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits. Great Lakes Window & Siding/Bath Planet failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful. Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense. If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses. Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted]. His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing. We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business”. At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager. Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do. With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error. The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least. My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues. It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/Bath Planet’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed. Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problems. I doubt corporate Bath Planet national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to. I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this point. Threats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respect. You are failing many of your pledges and promises. Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $1000 coupon discount is questionable at best. I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaints. Other consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and Bath Planet MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects. Bath Planet should be able to return the damaged shower base. The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications. My resolution goal remains a refund of my deposit. I wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forward. That is why we are at an impasse, Julie [redacted]. I am not a novice. I built the house myself in the 70’s. I have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues. I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems. I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered. I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved.
The project was completed on 11/23 -- during her walk-through none of these items were brought up and our installer was given a "5" out of "5" in terms of satisfaction. On Saturday the 26th, Ms. [redacted] called into the office to complain (Plumbers did not clean up adequately in her...
basement). We apologized to her as she was correct in what she was saying and the installer was out there the following Wednesday (11/30) to clean up after the plumber and to spackle as much as we could of the wall around the access panel that had crumbled from removing the access panel. On that date, Ms. [redacted] notified Rick our sales person and Brandon the production manager to let them know she was expecting a screw-in shower rod. This was not on the contract and was not charged for. It is not wise to put one up without bracing the wall prior to installation. On 12/14, Ms. [redacted] faxed in a letter demanding the project be re-done with new tile and items that were not contracted for and for the response to be in writing via email. We responded on 12/14 via email. Ms. [redacted] called in on 12/22 and left Brandon a message asking why nothing was being done. Brandon responded the way she asked to receive correspondence (email) by emailing the response from the 14th stating what we will/will not be doing to fix her project. Ms. [redacted] replied on 12/29 with a "demand" letter. Brandon Responded on 12/29 stating we would be getting back to her as soon as the 2 wall panels are in. Most of the correspondence hasn't been via phone, it has been via email. I have every email that was sent back and forth from Kim and I. The last email that was sent was on the 9th of this month explaining to her that we could replace the two side walls and try to do what we can with the plaster wall in the closet where the access panel is. Outside of that, We cannot replace the existing tile that is there. The two wall panels were delivered to us on Friday 1/27 and we have every intention to re-install them. Worth noting Ms. [redacted] confronted and berated our marketing staff (who know nothing about what has transpired) at the home and garden show over this weekend. Ms [redacted] is on my list to call in order to schedule her service. She will be receiving a phone call today to do so.
Complaint: [redacted]
I am rejecting this response because:BPMN told us at the beginning of our project that our desire to maximize headroom in our shower could be accomplished by attaching the ceiling directly to the overhead joists. They never said that in doing so there would be risk that the shower would be delivered with crooked walls and a bowing ceiling. Regardless, review of the ceiling installation by a 3rd party contractor indicates that the “blocking” method used by BPMN to install the ceiling (directly to the joists in lieu of framing and sheetrock) isn’t what caused the ceiling to bow. Instead, it was incorrect placement of the blocks to the lowest hanging joist. Something that, if done correctly, would have prevented the ceiling from bowing. Documentation of this assessment was provide to BPMN but no follow up/feedback was received. In addition, if any defects/issues with the shower relate to incorrect framing (as BPMN has claimed), they are still held responsible since it was work contracted by them, not us. We should not be forced to pay for, and live with, a poorly installed shower because BPMN failed to manage and inspect the work performed by their subcontractor (framing) and their employees (ceiling “blocking”). We agree with BPMN’s assessment that there was nearly weekly contact between us but only because we initiated it. And yes, calls were made to both the office and personal cell phones of the production manager (PM) but only because these were the numbers given to us. Our phone records show that between 09/03/15 and 02/10/16, 56 calls were placed between us and the PM’s office or cell phone. We initiated 29 of the 36 office calls and 17 of the 20 cell phone calls. Only 2 calls reflect a weekend day, both on Saturday and both to the office number. I think these numbers are a good reflection of how one sided our communication with BPMN was throughout the course of our project. In addition, the earliest call was at 09:02AM and the latest at 5:55PM. In addition, if at any time we were told to restrict our calls to specific numbers and times, we most assuredly would have complied.Once the BPMN work begin in November, the PM made only 3 visits to our house. None were to discuss the details of our project or to review/inspect the progress of the work as it was delivered. The first visit was in November when BPMN’s framer brought two light a possible issue relating to two small pipes that infringed into the area above the shower. The PM came on site, took pictures and told us that “no” the pipes would not pose any problems. No additional details were provided. The PM’s second visit was in December on the day the interior bathroom finishing and shower install was to begin. We asked him to come to the house when we were told by the installers that they had been instructed to install a soffit to address pipes that hung over the shower. The PM never told us a soffit was to be installed and should have known that would not be agreeable with us given we had clearly communicated at the startup of our project that we wanted to do everything possible to maximize headroom. At this point we had no other choice but to incur the additional cost and time to have relocate the pipes. It was our hope that BPMN would provide us some type of financial consideration since we felt this issue could have been prevented if it had been identified and addressed earlier in the project. For example, we could have avoided the pipes altogether by shortening the length of our bathroom by 2 inches, or we could have had the pipes relocated in the months leading up to the bathroom install which would have prevented the one month delay. A late night phone call with the owner resulted in no such relief. The owner was abrasive, intimidating and flatly refused to accept any responsibility. The PM’s third visit to our home was in January when we refused to make final payment. At our insistence he was accompanied by the business owner, who as we pointed out in our original complaint, refused to accept any responsibility for the flaws/defects in what BPMN had delivered. We do not agree with BPMN’s assessment that the wall and ceiling finishing defects were “minor”. When the PM and owner came to our home to view the completed bathroom and the defects for which final payment was being withheld, we had placed at least two dozen pieces of blue tape on the walls and ceilings where flaws were found. We can provide photos if necessary.We take exception to BPMN’s feedback that we were satisfied and “signed off” on the work and only voiced our concerns when final payment was requested. The so call “sign off” was presented to us as the BPMN workers were rushing out the door. In fact one of the workers was sitting out in the truck with the engine running. We were advised by an employee that he was mandated by BPMN to get the completed form before leaving the site. We fully regret not pushing back and refusing to complete it until we had more time to thoroughly inspect the work (w/o tools and equipment impeding our full access and w/o the BPMN worker looking over our shoulder). It is also important to point out that in completing the form we included a number of comments highlighting our complete dissatisfaction with the way in BPMN had managed our project including complete lack of communication and customer service. At the same time as sign off, we were also asked to make final payment. The fact that we refused to do so, reflects our dissatisfaction with what had been delivered. Also, I would like to point out that in terms of sign off, BPMN didn’t come anywhere close to delivering upon what they have stated in their Exclusive Guarantee. It states “we will review the end-of-project review form with you BEFORE beginning the installation of your new bathroom. If you cannot rate us as Outstanding on any criteria at the end of the installation, tell us – and we will make it right. We do not believe in “good enough”. In addition, the Guarantee states “within two weeks of installation an independent Customer Research/Survey company will contact you to get your unfiltered and unbiased assessment of our company. We take this feedback very seriously…” We were never contacted to provide suchfeedback. In terms of the injured employee…we know his ability to perform was impeded by his hand injury, whatever the type. He dropped a slab of sheetrock resulting in the need for a third employee to be called onsite to help carry sheetrock on his behalf. We also witnessed him having difficulty carrying a heavy piece of equipment resulting in him putting a “ding” in a wall which was then patched.In terms of BPMN employees performing non licensed plumbing work…feedback from our contracted plumber is that one of the BPMN shower installers removed an inner wall faucet plate used to help provide stabilization to the exterior faucet when attached. The removal of the plate should have been discussed with the contracted plumber who installed it. If removal was deemed necessary, it should have been removed by the plumber, not the BPMN installer. Additionally, we contracted and paid the plumbing service to install the shower head and faucet. It should not have been installed by BPMN resulting in the faucet being installed "crooked" with blame being placed on the contracted plumbing service.Our originally communicated desired resolution remains unchanged.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
I am rejecting this response because: We are unsure as to where the manager and owner are arriving at this information, they must be confusing us with another complainant. Since day one of calling to make the complaint we referenced to "the top back of the bathtub", NOT the bottom of the tub. This is what we have been trying to get across to both of these men. When we first called and complained, the installer was sent out to our home and agreed that the tub had a squeak. The installer cut/scraped away all of the caulk on "the top back of the tub" against the outside wall and recaulked everything to try and eliminate the squeak. When the squeak continued is when we called back and asked to speak to the manager. I [redacted] spoke to him and I too became very frustrated with him as he would only reference the floor settling and moving causing the squeak. I tried telling him it had nothing to do with the bottom of the tub or the floor, but he would not listen. He stated he would come out but it wouldn't change anything as the house/floor was settling. [redacted] did meet with him and too becme frustrated amd told him to leave as he would not listen to what [redacted] was saying that it is the "top back of the bathtub" and you would need to sit down lean back against the back of the tub in order to hear the squeak.
I am rejecting this response because: the tiles on the wall and on the floor that the company damaged have to be fixed and I should not be responsible for paying for something the company and their workers damaged. The wall in the second bedroom needs to be fixed as the company/their workers damaged the wall. As far as the shower curtain rod, why was a shower head put in the shower if there was no intention of putting in a shower curtain rod. Rick advised me to take the old shower curtain rod down in preparation for the new curtain rod installation. As far as giving the job a satisfaction rate of 5 out of 5 - that was Johnny's doings not mine. There was no walk through - Johnny was waiting for me to return home to get final payment for the installation - drinking beer in his truck while he waited, I was not about to argue with a grow man who had been drinking. Yes, Johnny came back two days later to take away a piece of cut pipe that was in left in the basement and to sweep the basement. But this is neither here nor there - the floor tiles, wall tiles and the bedroom closet wall were not damaged prior to the installation and they need to be fixed to pre-installation status. And since Rick "forgot" to put a shower curtain rod in the contract one should be installed when the new panels are put in as a courtesy for the inconvenience that I have gone through for over two months. And as a side-note, I did not harass anyone at the Home Improvement show, I merely stated the unprofessional job and lack of communication (with Brandon) to address/fix the problems/issues with this particular installation. I am asking that my home be returned to the pre-installation condition as when this company and their workers started the project. The company has been paid in full and I am not satisfied with the project.
I am rejecting this response because:
Revdex.com Complaint ID [redacted] There was no misunderstanding as to what we believed we were receiving vs. what we signed up for and nor were there any constraints to the project as we desired. The project was to replace a shower in an existing bathroom with a bigger one and the project had already started before we saw their display at the Minnesota State Fair. We had the manufacturer, size, colors and samples selected. Based on their Revdex.com accreditation and their $1000 off coupon, we signed up for a “consultation”. On 09/20/206, the [redacted] representative Brandon [redacted] arrived to discuss the project . We spent considerable time determining the needs and establishing the specifics, with Brandon taking measurements. With the promise of their “crew” being able to complete the project within 6-8 weeks following the 2nd technical measure, we accepted the quote and contracted with a down payment. Based upon their Revdex.com A+ rating, we did not anticipate any issues. On 10/03/2016, their Mechanical Tech, Scott [redacted], performed the 2nd measure and site inspection. There was no concern that the 36X60” shower was not going to work. I figured we were good to go. After approximately 6 weeks had passed without any updates from them, during the week of 11/14, I called and talked to the Production Manager, Brandon [redacted], to get an installation update. I was informed the materials weren’t in yet and that they would call us when they arrived. We did not hear from them so during the week of 11/28/2016, (the 9th week after the 2nd remeasure) my wife [redacted], called and talked to Brandon [redacted] and was told the materials were expected by the end of the week and she pressed for a date to get on the schedule. She was told the earliest they could begin (provided the materials arrived) would be 12/12. It was neither a commitment or confirmation. When we did not hear from them again, I called on 12/09/2016 for an update and was surprised to hear the install was going to start Monday 12/12, and also surprised that my wife had already “set that up” per that non-committal phone call with Brandon. The Installer arrived 12/12 as scheduled. About 90 minutes into the inside work, he informed me that per the drawing which he was provided, it appeared the shower base would not work. The existing drainpipe was in very close proximity to a floor joist and there was not enough space to connect the new shower base to the drain. The Installer called Brandon [redacted] , who insisted to the installer it wasn’t a problem and would work. The installer went back to work. He opened the crate to confirm the drain location in the shower base and he determined it was off by about 2 inches to fit, and again indicated it wouldn’t fit. When he was talking to the Production Manager, I noticed a 4 inch section of a flange was broken off the base unit. I pointed this out to the installer when he got off the phone. I also added that the shower base was not the correct size and got our agreement to show him. The Bathroom Update Agreement specifies a 36X60” low profile Onyx base, the key aspect being the 36X60” size. The shower base as delivered was 31.5 inches wide on the shower side, smaller than the unit being replaced. The installer was professional, polite and understanding of our concerns, and unfortunately, he was caught in the middle. The installer spent more time on the phone than anything. I don’t think Brandon believed his evaluation of the situation. He called Brandon [redacted] back with the additional issues, and Brandon called me back direct to discuss the issues. Brandon told me the drain location would work and also that the damage to the flange was acceptable. In the complaint response, someone described again, that the broken (chipped) area was a “nailing flange”. The manufacturer’s product literature, website and videos describe the flanges as a “water dam”. Following a email query from me the evening of 12/12, I got phone call from Onyx Collection early on 12/13 confirming that this was not a nailing flange. He was able to view my order with [redacted] . He said I was right to question the installation and called me directly instead of emailing me back to be sure I got the information. Apparently, the manufacturer’s installation instructions are not being followed if these particular units are installed with screws in the flange into the studs. Brandon was very aggressive in trying to assure me the floor drain location was not an issue, and that “they do this all the time”, “every day” and at most, they only would need to cut into the back wall “an inch or so” to make it work. I’m still trying to determine what he meant by “doing this all the time”. I told him that we did not sign up for their cutting into another wall to place the base unit where it should have fit. I told him that method was unacceptable, and in addition, I was rejecting the shower base due to the damaged water dam flange. During our discussion, Brandon offered to order a new base unit, but couldn’t make any changes to it. He said it wouldn’t look good to order a new unit, and tell their supplier “by the way” , “we have different dimensions” this time. I told him it was unfortunate their relationship with a primary supplier was obviously not based upon trust. He said “it is business, and it doesn’t work that way”. He thought it was humorous for me to think it was anything other than a “business”. He said the base unit was what we ordered and had to be that size due to the location of an existing floor vent. Again, zero communication. The floor is being replaced by me, not [redacted]. Individuals, including Brandon [redacted], not knowledgeable about the product and project details, assumed the HVAC duct location affected the placement of the base unit and could not be as specified. So they took it upon themselves to second guess the agreement without any questions or information to or from me. The salesperson and the mechanical technician each asked about the vent and were told it was not an issue and would be moved by me. This was not passed on to their designers. Brandon would not concede to any errors on their part, so that assumes that I, the customer, should roll over and accept a smaller shower when we specified a larger one. At no time did any question, HVAC or otherwise, regarding any constraints came up. I told Brandon not to order a new shower base unless the configuration was modified to fit the drain location as well as the specified dimensions, with the 36X60” base. He indicated there would be additional fees for holding up the installation and I told him I would not be paying fees for holding up the installation because the delay is due to the base unit damage and the additional problems were due to errors when they placed the order with Onyx Collections. I instructed him to NOT order a same base unit and the job was on hold until we got the issues resolved. I had to talk to the installer again and I told him that I would call back. In discussing the issues to be resolved with the installer, he indicated they were trying to get the plumber here to check it out. I told the installer that the job was on hold until the office helped resolve the installation issues. I helped the installer load up all the materials and before he left, based upon his last discussion with Brandon, he said a plumber would be here in the morning to check things out. When the plumber did not show up, I called Brandon [redacted] to find out when the plumber was coming. He responded that the plumber was not coming because “they had all the measurements they need”. He went on to say if I wanted the 36X60” size shower base, I would have to pay for it and it would take about 8 weeks to get it in. I told him that Lowe’s could get me a unit in about 3 weeks or less and he said, “we aren’t Lowe’s”. No kidding. We emailed the manufacturer on 12/12 and got a similar (2 weeks in production per email from Luis [redacted] of Onyx in Kansas) 3 week delivery that Lowe’s provided. I reiterated that the project can’t move forward with the wrong size shower. Brandon surmised if they now, were off the job, that I “would be eating the down payment”. Seeing as our bathroom had been made unusable on 12/11 in preparation for the installation, we were being held hostage in more than one way. I told him that is not happening. They made a mistake, but I would have to pay for a new shower base if I wanted changes, changes that met the contract. Also not happening. I asked to speak to Dan [redacted] but was told he was unavailable nor was there a direct phone number. I would imagine he’s tired of having to be involved in all the customer disputes. I emailed customer service to register the fact that I had informed Brandon [redacted] NOT to order another shower base the same size. I then filed my Revdex.com complaint. In reference to Great Lakes Window & Siding/[redacted] MN response to my complaint, they stated that a shower base in the size we wanted would have been “considerably more expensive” than the unit they delivered. It’s an unfortunate situation they put themselves in when they create contracts without knowing the cost of the materials of the project. The hard-sell and “discount” push for signing a contract while they are here performing the “Bathroom Design Consultation” is obviously more important than understanding exactly what they are selling, how to install the products properly, and what they are contracted to perform. I guess that is considered and most likely is padded into the quote to cover errors, things overlooked and/or multiple service visits. Great Lakes Window & Siding/[redacted] failed to perform appropriate preliminary observations for the project to be successful. Their failure to acknowledge any of the issues are related to their tasks doesn’t make sense. If they proceed even with a new shower base the correct size, what other shortcuts are we in store for? I appreciate family run businesses. Their website indicates the President is Dan [redacted]. His son is in charge of scheduling bathroom measures, services and ordering materials, his son-in-law is the Production Manager, his wife is Treasurer, and her daughter, is the Owner and in charge of Marketing. We have nepotism on display as an attribute for a “family run business”. At what point does it cease being a business attribute? I would have asked to speak to the owner to try resolve this, but for the fact the owner is the wife of the Production Manager. Who makes these decisions relating to the reputation of the organization, the President or Owner? I recommend a collective review of their guarantee on their website and adjust their mission to what they really want to do. With this management team, how could they concede they could ever make an error. The apology for the “misunderstanding” as well as professing they would “love to continue this project” are certainly disingenuous to say the least. My experience and viewing other customer’s complaints on various social media and other sites, indicates many similar issues. It appears Great Lakes Windows and Siding/[redacted]’s Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I doubt Onyx Collections or any other suppliers would guarantee their products if they were improperly installed. Thus all such projects would have no warranty and no remedy for problems. I doubt corporate [redacted] national headquarters would appreciate if the manufacturer’s specs were not adhered to. I submit that your website pledge “to respect YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY” at odds with your practices based upon anything I have experienced at this point. Threats of installation delay charges and/or forfeiting my down payment isn’t showing my money or me any respect. You are failing many of your pledges and promises. Your “bait & switch” with installation lead times and the year-round $1000 coupon discount is questionable at best. I am disappointed that I had this experience from an A+ Revdex.com rated company and do not understand the listed rating based upon complaints. Other consumer sites appear to be a more accurate investigative resource prior to engaging Great Lakes Window & Siding and [redacted] MN of Apple Valley, MN for any remodeling projects. [redacted] should be able to return the damaged shower base. The other Onyx panels are wrong only due to the fact the base was incorrect per contract specifications. My resolution goal remains a refund of my deposit. I wouldn’t be able to trust the company going forward. That is why we are at an impasse, Julie [redacted]. I am not a novice. I built the house myself in the 70’s. I have personally remodeled the entire house, added onto the garage, added an enclosed hot tub, and this year, added an room with a fireplace, without any issues. I have contracted with various trades in the past without any problems. I understand remodeling very well and know what I wanted and I know what I ordered. I also know that this Revdex.com complaint is only the first step in the process to get this resolved.