This is the response to Mr ***’s complaint with the above referenced IDAs I understand it Mr***’s does not feel he should have to pay to go and pick up parts for his jobIt is impossible for a plumbing van to stock every plumbing part for every jobStores like Home Depot,
Lowe’s and McClendon’s Hardware have or aisles full of just plumbing partsIt is not possible to carry every conceivable partIt is standard practice in the plumbing industry to charge the time it takes to go and get a partThe plumber is dedicated to the customer’s job while in route to pick up parts.Although we do feel that we did anything wrong to satisfy the customer we will however refund the customer’s $as he has requestedI will request a check for $be sent out on Monday. Gary C***FloHawks Operations Manager0ffice 253-848-2371Cell ***@nwcascade.com
Attn: *** ***
This email is in response to the above referenced complaint
The facts as stated by *** *** are mostly accurate with a couple of exceptions as follow:
1. On 11/1/3015, *** *** called FloHawks to come
out to clear a main line backing up into the houseMr*** scheduled the work to be done in the morning of 11/3/This was later rescheduled for 11/4/in the AMOn 4/4/a service tech was dispatched to the above referenced addressUpon arrival the service tech determined that the mainline wasn’t pluggedHe determined that the problem was that no water was leaving the septic tank and recommended pumping for reliefA pump truck was dispatched that same day and went and pumped the tank for reliefThe customer was told that there was bigger problem and that more work was neededThe customer was never told that the pumping that was done would solve their problem or that it was done so more work could be doneThe fact that the tank had to be pumped again for the repairs to be made has nothing to do with the work FloHawks didA septic tank, under conditions will fill back up in 7-days
2. Yes, there was a delay in getting back to the customer until 11/10/Our customer service representative, Carl E*** talked to the customer about doing some exploratory digging in the drain field to determine if the drain field had failedDigging up the transport line and potholing around the laterals is the process for evaluating the drain field. A permit which is called a limited repair permit is required for this type of work and can take a few days to getIt did take a couple of weeks of to get to the point where the job could be scheduledAs far as we knew the customer was not out of service and therefore it was not an emergency
3. The work was scheduled to be done on 11/30/The excavation crew was sent out that dayUpon arrival at the property to complete the work as agreed on the customer turned the crew awayThey stated they were unhappy with FloHawks and had hired another company to do the work
FloHawks is not responsible for work done by another company in this case *** *** ***If the work had been done by FloHawks the tank may or may not have needed to be pumped againThe tank more than likely would have needed pumped again regardless of who did the work as a septic fills back up in 7-daysFloHawks has no control over work done by another company and is not responsible for this billWe are sorry for any inconvenience that Mrand Mrs*** may have suffered due to delays in getting the work completed but FloHawks is not responsible for work completed by another service company This would be like taking your car to one mechanic for repairs and then for whatever reason (timeliness, quality, personality conflict) they decide to get the repair done by a different mechanicThe first mechanic is not responsible for the cost of the repair done by the second mechanic
Thank you for your time in this matter
Gary C***
FloHawks Operations Manager
0ffice 253-848-
Cell ***
***
On 1/25/we received the response to this complaint by *** *** in response to FloHawks’ initial response to said complaint.We respectfully will agree to disagree with this customerAs per the attached service tickets that clearly show the work done on 11/4/was for “relief”The first call was to clear the mainlineUpon, arrival it was determined that the problem was not the mainline but a rather a much more serious problemBoth tickets clearly indicate that the drain filed was not taking liquid and the next step was for sales/area rep to contact the customer about the next stepBoth service tickets clearly indicate that the problem was beyond a simple fix and that pumping was for relief onlyThe work was not being done for evaluation and/or repairIn fact, both tickets clearly indicate that water was returning which indicates potential drain field failureThese types of repairs do typically take 2-weeks to get permits, get contracts in place, and get equipment and crews scheduledFurthermore, these types of repairs are exploratory in nature and may or may not solve the problem. There was never any time frame given for contacting the customer and doing more workI challenge the customer to provide any proof to the contraryThe customer clearly states there was no agreement for FloHawks to perform additional workThe customer choose to hire another company to complete the work which is their prerogative but FloHawks is not responsible for the billWe will not be issuing a refund or paying the bill for *** ***.Thank you for your time in this matter.Gary C***FloHawks Operations Manager
Though we do not totally agree with the description of the events that transpired we will refund the customer $Our employees are trained in communications especially when it comes to the customerIt is unfortunate that is happened and we will all we can to satisfy the customer's requestA
check will be sent in the mail by 11/15/17. Thank You
Unfortunately, we have to dispute this claimHere is what our records indicate: The customer had a different contractor come out before us to run a camera in his line, but it the line was holding water and nothing could be determinedWe did ran a camera to see if we could determine if the
system had an inlet baffle but we too could not determine thisWe ran a 2nd cable from the tub and 3rd toilet to clear out the system and water started to run but then the back up happened againOur recommendation was to dig and install a riser and lid to to see if there is an inlet baffelWe reviewed this with the customer and also provided a service call and technical work to analyze the situation
After reading Mr***’s complaint, we feel that our charges were justifiedIt is standard industry practice to charge for travel time and materials and we also quoted our hourly rate before we came to the propertyThere are many different types and manufactures of toilets and there is no way
any company can keep a full inventory of these different items in their vehicles at all timesWe did inform Mr***’s spouse throughout the service of the costs of our continued action and the whole time our technician was told to proceed with the repairAt any time, we could have been told to hold off or stop the repair so they could communicate with each other or do their own researchWe were forthcoming with all our actions and did not pressure anyone to finish this repair
With that being said, we will credit Mr***’s account the two hours of our technician’s travel time ($400)
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. Sincerely, [redacted]
[redacted] Please See Attached Documents [redacted]
8/25/2015[redacted] (File Number [redacted]) Attorney General of Washington Consumer Protection Division [redacted] Seattle, WA 98104Revdex.com PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327Regarding: [redacted] Redmond WA...
98052Dear Sirs:This letter is in response to the complaints filed with both agencies by Mr. [redacted] regarding the above listed address. We disagree with the facts as presented by Mr. [redacted]. Northwest Cascade (NWC) DBA [redacted] provided Mr. [redacted] with timely service at the prices quoted. NWC has not been deceptive in any way with regard to our business practices. The prices charged are both reasonable and in line with industry standards for the work done. Each of Mr. [redacted] concerns will be addressed.Timely Service:Mr. [redacted] states in his complaint that he needed the work done with in a 2 week period. The first call to NWC was on 7/1/2015. All work was completed on 7/7/2015 and paperwork filed with King County on 7/9/2015. So all work was completed and paperwork filed within 8 days. In fact, the work would have been done even quicker but we were unable to get approval for the additional electrical work until 7/6/2015. In fairness, there was a weekend and a holiday (4th of July) in there. Furthermore, even though the customer's credit card declined NWC filed the paperwork with King County using a NWC credit card so as to honor our commitment of timely service.Charges:The charges were as quoted. Mr. [redacted] initially contacted our office on 7/1/2015 to pump the system at the above address on 7/2/2015. He needed it pumped because he was selling the property. He stated that someone else was doing the inspection. Mr. [redacted] was quoted $449.00 to pump the main septictank and $285.00 to pump the pump chamber. We also charge an $11.50 consumables charge. The total for pumping came to $816.82 with tax quoted.Mr. [redacted] called back later that same day and requested that an inspection for sale of the property also be done. He was quoted standard prices plus required County fees. Standard pricing for inspections are $179.00 for the first half hour and $44.75 per 15 minute increments thereafter. In addition there are approximately $200.00 in County Fees that we are required to collect. These fees are paid to the County. It usually takes about an hour to an hour and a half to complete an inspection. The charges for inspection and County fees came to $506.99.The inspection on the system was completed on 7/2/2015. The pumping was completed on 7/3/2015. During the course of the inspection it was discovered that the system had a couple of electrical problems. It was explained to Mr. [redacted] that we could file the paperwork with the County without making the repairs but the County could reject the filing and put the sale on hold. Mr. [redacted] was given an estimate of between $500.00 to $600.00 to do the electrical repairs which he agreed to. On 7/7/2015 the electrical repairs were completed as agreed upon for a charge of $546.95.The total for all work and required fees came to a total of $1685.00 plus $160.08 tax for a total of $1845.08. The customer was quoted individually for all the things that were done.Payment for Services:The agreement was that Mr. [redacted] would provide a credit card to cover the work and when the house closed then the escrow company would send Northwest Cascade (NWC) a check and the credit card would be credited back or the escrow company would send a check to Mr. [redacted]. If the house did not close then NWC would be paid for the work with the credit card. This is our standard practice as it relates to real estate transactions.When the work was completed on 7/7/2015 NWC attempted to run the credit card as agreed. The credit card declined. Numerous attempts were made to contact Mr. [redacted] regarding his declined credit card to no avail. Mr. [redacted] states that he could not get a copy of the invoice. Frankly, this makes no sense. I have attached a copy of the invoice which shows a date of 7/7/2015. Why would a business not give the customer a copy of the invoice they were trying to collect for?On 7/22/2014 NWC did receive a check from an escrow company ([redacted]) in the amount of $937.32 on behalf of Mr. [redacted] which was deposited. We were not sure where this dollar amount even came from as it did not match any of our 3 work tickets or the invoice. We see in the complaint that Mr. [redacted] says that he provided an estimate for that amount. NWC always intended to credit this amount against the invoice.Yes, we continued to try and collect the balance due for the work that was done. On 7/27/2015 a copy of the original invoice was emailed to the customer at his request. There was no intent to deceive Mr. [redacted]. At most there may have been a miscommunication regarding the check that was received. The current balance due is $907.76.In conclusion, the facts speak for themselves. The work was completed and paper work filed as agreed. NWC has not been paid for the services rendered as agreed to. The customer has been contacted several times regarding this matter and refused to pay. Instead, the customer has come up with a bogus complaint regarding timeliness of service, charges and customer service. This complaint has no validity. Clearly the facts, as documented by supporting official documents submitted with this response, do not support Mr. [redacted] claims.I have attached copies of the following:1. Copy of the invoice dated 7/7/2015 billed when work was completed.2. Copies of all 3 service techs job tickets showing the work and charges3. Copy of the order notes showing contact dates, order history, and collection attempts4. Copy of King County Property Transfer Report dated 7/9/2015NWC/[redacted] has done all that we agreed to do in a timely manner. If there is more information regarding this matter please let us know. Our records indicate that we completed the work as agreed both timely and for the price quoted. We are legitimately owed the balance of $907.76 for the work that was done.Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter. If you have questions I can be reached by phone at[redacted] or by email at [redacted]Gary C[redacted] Operations Manager[redacted]SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS REDACTED BY Revdex.com[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Business has resolved issues to my satisfaction.Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
We were told my the initial service tech that the pumping of the tank would need to be performed before any evaluation of the septic system or drain field could be done. We agreed to this with the expectation that Flohawks would actually perform the work they were called out to do (solve the basement backup issue) in a timely manor (as indicated by both technicians who serviced the septic system on 11/4/15). The fact that Flohawks is aware that the system would refill within 7-10 days only serves to justify our complaint. They should have responded to this issue timely in order to prevent a second pumping. During conversations with Jim [redacted] and Carl E[redacted], it was acknowledged that the tank would have to be pumped again, and that Flohawks would need to do this at no charge due to their failure to expeditiously resolve the issues.
Should Flohawks have issue with reimbursing the lesser charge of [redacted] for the second pumping, they are more than welcome to refund us their pumping fee of $500+, authorized on 11/4/15 and charged to our card on 11/6/15 as part of a total charge of $804.73. As indicated, this pumping was performed solely as a temporary solution (as indicated by the statement from Flohawks in their response), and they did not follow up to complete any work within the timeframe they have indicated would have been necessary to prevent a second pumping, which caused the second pumping to be necessary before repairs could be performed.
It was not at Flohawks' discretion to make the determination of whether this was an "emergency" situation. Until the issue could be resolved, a gaping hole had to be left in our front yard to allow access to the septic tank and baffle, which left our entire yard and surrounding areas reeking of excrement. If that's not an emergency situation, I don't know what is.
Further, there was no agreement for Flohawks to perform work at our location on 11/30/15. Our last communication with Flohawks was on 11/18/15 with Carl E[redacted].Sincerely,[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. Sincerely, [redacted]
This letter is Flohawks' official response to the above referenced complaint filed by [redacted]. FloHawks takes Revdex.com complaints seriously and do our best to investigate every situation. We do not keep record of every contact with the customer. The facts as stated in [redacted] complaint are...
not reported accurately and materially misrepresent what actually occurred.
The facts are as follows:
1. On Saturday, 2/20/2016 at 9:15 pm, [redacted] called our office and requested that a pump truck be sent to her house to pump her septic tank for relief. On Sunday, 2/21/2016 at 11:05 am a pump truck, per the customer's request, was sent to the location. Upon arrival the pump truck driver discovered that the customer had two tanks that did not need to be pumped. He found both tanks to be at a high level. The septic tank had a plugged outlet filter which he cleaned. He also found that the float wires were all twisted up in the pump chamber which he straightened out and got the pump to work.
It should be noted that the driver could have pumped both tanks for a cost of around $800.00 but did not do so as it was not needed. It also should be noted that the pump truck drivers can do basic troubleshooting on pumps but have neither the tools nor the expertise to do a complete diagnostic of a pump problem.
2. On 2/25/2016 at 7:15 am the customer called again. This time they reported a pump alarm and requested an electrician. An electrician went out later that day and determined that there was a problem with the timer that turned the pump on and off. Although it was working there was a 5-10 second delay before the pump started. This was explained to the customer who was very concerned about costs and declined to have the problem fixed. It was also discussed with the customer that there was water coming into the tank from the house which could be contributing to the problem. A leaking toilet was suspected to be causing the water leak. It was also discussed the the alarm float cords were swollen and the alarm float had a crack. The customer did not want the electrician to spend any additional time troubleshooting any additional problems. The customer stated that the husband was an engineer at [redacted] and would source the parts and fix the issues themselves.
It is stressed that the customer did not want the electrician to do any additional troubleshooting to insure that the timer was the only problem or determine if the water coming in or swollen cords were making the problem worse. The charges for this 2nd visit were at a substantially reduced rate. Normally, the charge for this second visit would be a service call ($179) plus another .25 hours at ($44.75) plus $11.50 consumables for a total of $235.25 plus tax. Instead we charged continuous time and the bill only came to $145.75 plus tax.
3. On 02/28/2016 at 12:04 pm the customer called again. This time they stated that they wanted us to come out and replace the timer. Apparently it was not as easy to find the part and/or replace it as they thought it would be. They also requested that the water issue be addressed when we came out to replace the timer.
When they called in this time they wanted to argue over the price of both the service and the cost of the part. Rather than argue over the price we again agreed to do the work at a reduced rate. Customer even called back to make sure we look at other problems.
Once we got onsite this 3rd time the timer was replaced. However, again due to cost concerns the customer did not want anymore troubleshooting or repairs done even thought it was noted on the ticket they signed that there were additional problems.
The above items 1-3 are the facts. These facts are supported by the order notes and signed field service tickets. I have attached copies of all invoices, order notes, service tickets and field service tickets regarding this matter. Simply stated this customer is/was extremely difficult to work with. They did not want to spend the money to address the septic system problems correctly. They wanted and received discounted rates for everything. They thought they could fix the problems themselves but when the could not they called us back. This approach contributed to additional costs even though all charges were discounted. Then when their system continued to have problems they wanted to blame FloHawks.
In conclusion, [redacted] is not entitled to a refund for the following reasons:
On the first service she requested and got a pump truck. The driver could have pumped her tank but did not and thereby saved her significant money. He cleaned the filter which immediately solved some of their problem. He did limited troubleshooting on the pump.
On the 2nd service call the customer did not want to spend the money to adequately troubleshoot the problem or fix the problems that were found.
On the 3rd service call it was pretty much the same story. Problems were identified that needed addressed but the customer choose not to fix them. It is frankly no surprise they continued to have a problem as they refused to pay to properly troubleshoot or fix problems. They then hired Brand X to make the needed repairs identified by FloHawks and are disputing the FloHawks charges.
Clearly, the signed service tickets and other attached paperwork in this matter support all of the above. The customer also states that they were in contact with the "plumber" on 3/13/2016 and that he never returned their call. If they had a problem they should have called the office. Our field staff do not carry company cell phones so I am not sure how they called the "plumber" who never returned their call.
The customer states that they called another company who came out and fixed the problem. If that is true great, the problem is fixed. Had they allowed FloHawks to properly fix all of the issues we identified as we identified them then all problems would have been corrected on the 2nd visit. Instead they choose a piece meal approach. This approach is what caused the problems with this job, not that FloHawks failed to properly complete the repair.
First I respectfully disagree with this customer's statement of the facts. The customer called in and indicated that his tank was open so there would be no reason to quote digging charges or trip charges. It cost money to operate a pump truck. It cost money to pay the driver. It is not reasonable to...
expect that we would come out for no charge. If you call the Maytag repair man and your appliance can't be fixed there is still a charge.
However, we have not and will not charge the credit card.
[redacted] Please See Attached Documents [redacted]
Per the complaint listed above we have prepared the following response to Mr. [redacted] complaint1. Our records indicate that [redacted] called in the order for a septic pumping formaintenance. We do not show any request for plugged lines.2. Our service...
drivers do not answer the phones in our office and take orders. The phone call wasanswered by Susan P[redacted] in our office.3. We do not guarantee everything to be fine over the phone. Trouble shooting over the phone isimpossible. The technicians jobs are to assess the problems on site and advise repairs or solveproblems as needed.4. During pumping of the tank we discovered unusual materials in the septic tank.5. We obtained approval from the owner for an electrician to come out and trouble shoot thepump not functioning. It turned out the pump was Ok, but the wiring to the pump was burnt upand needed replaced between the panel and pump chamber. That was the cause of the pumpnot working. The fuse in the panel was blown and would not stay set. The electrician cuttingthe wiring did not cause any of the problems. That would have been a spot repair if the otherproblems did not exist.6. We also offered to clean the tub line when we were informed of the issue. The customer thendecided to do this work on his own.Based on customer request and problems found at the home we believe all work has been performedappropriately and with customer approval. Please see the attached copies of drivers ticket, commentdocumentation done as part of the service order.As of November 19th the credit card payment for $608.14 has been rejected. We request that thispayment be remitted in full to satisfy the outstanding charges still owed.Please let us know if you need anything further. We expect that Mr. [redacted] will pay in full for servicesperformed at his or [redacted] at request, or we will have to pursue further actions to collectpayment.JR I[redacted]Vice President NW Cascade I Flo Hawks
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
I have spoken with Mr. [redacted] and resolved the above reference complaint. We have agreed to refund Mr. [redacted] the entire amount of the invoice he paid on 7/31/2015. We apologize to Mr. [redacted] for the problem created. The work should have been done under warranty from work...
done in August of 2013. Although Mr. [redacted] was not asking for a complete refund when I investigated the facts it appeared that this was the right thing to do. FloHawks does strive to be fair to all customers and do the right thing.
Thank you Mr. [redacted] for working with us to resolve this issue. Again, please accept our apologies for the problem. You check has been processed and should arrive soon.
Thank you.
Gary C[redacted]
FloHawks Operations Manager
0ffice [redacted]
Cell [redacted]@nwcascade.com
Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
While I do appreciate the response from FloHawks, our request for a complete reimbursement of all charges is due to inadequate service and knowledge of the technicians. Because of these two items, a large balance continued to grow. It took our family going to a different organization for a one time visit that took 10 minutes. Since this visit the problem has been resolved.
When [redacted] requested that Floawks come to the property it was due to "Septic Alarm going off". The first line of introductory questioning from the operator clearly would have given FloHawks more than enough information that the septic tank would not need to be pumped. 2 people living in a residence that has a septic system set up for 4 people. Also the pump was pumped under 2 years ago when we purchased the home. Per all three technicians who came to our house should not have intended there for their to be a pumping.
All three of the technicians who visited our home thought the reason for the alarm going off was different. First technician (February 21) thought that it was because there was too much slack in the wires for the sensors. He wrapped up the cords with zip-ties as the solution. Pump was ran and everything seemed to be in good working condition. While you do state that the technician could have charged us simply for a pump, the problem was still there. So I don't see why stating he could have done a different solution. The problem still occurred three days later.
Next technician came out. This time he did state that it was the timer. Not probably, not might be, not could be. This was the problem. At this time the technician did put in a new timer. However, after that the technician recanted his words about the timer. Stating "I put the new one in it works. I put the old one in and it works now too. It's the weirdest thing." So yes I did ask about purchasing a timer elsewhere as the part was listed by your organization as ~ $150, I also found the part online for $65. However, I wanted to see if perhaps the timer had reset or was working and just needed to be pulled out. Things your technician did. Not I. So when the technician claims that I may not need to spend that kind of money, when I have already put in about ~$400 into the problem, you would probably do the same in my situation. Here I was also told that I need to conserve water usage going into the tank. Showers, laundry, and washing of the dishes were cut back.
Third technician came out after I submitted to their needing to be a new timer. A new timer was installed. But also at this time the technician couldn't properly reinstall the pvc pipe that the sensors were attached into my the tank that houses my septic tank pump. The technician went through everything and at this time even came and listened to the "leaky toilet" you proclaim was a cause. At this time the technician did not feel that it was a culprit let alone a factor in our issue.
At this time we feel that we have given FloHawks multiple opportunities to solve the issue with our septic alarm going off. Text message correspondence (I do not feel it is appropriate to give the number of the technician whose phone number we have as it may lead to unneeded discipline on the employee) with a technician continue to show that after continuing to run the pump for up to 3 minutes at a time several hours apart (in the texts from the technician) not more than 4 hours apart (in those same texts) and continuing to conserve water at either 1 load of laundry a day or 1 load of dishes and with the alarm problem still happening with a new timer (charged to us by FloHawks) every 3-4 days that FloHawks truly had failed to identify the cause of the alarm going off at all hours of the day and was unable to solve the problem. Even within these same text messages the technician requests for us to call into the operator and request a 4th opportunity to come and solve the problem. I am grateful that we did not.
In summary FloHawks was contacted about a septic alarm going off. While I am not a plumber, typically that means the tank is near full as that is 99% the purpose of the septic alarm. Three opportunities were had by FloHawks to solve the problem. All 3 times different issues were identified as the causes of the alarm going off. And the problem was never solved. We are asking for a full refund of our balance because FloHawks failed to provide a service yet charged us for such. We can provide a copy to the Revdex.com of our receipt from the organization that came out to our property and solved the problem within 10 minutes after.
To Whom It May Concern; This letter is Flohawks' follow up response to the response from [redacted]. Our response has not changed, This customer created their own problems. We provided service to this customer who did not want to pay for the work from the beginning and created their own problems by limiting what they wanted FloHawks to do and by their desire to save money by doing work themselves. We do not believe that the customer is entitled to a refund. In a show of good faith I will offer a 50% refund and if not accepted this offer is withdrawn. To re-iterate Mrs. [redacted] is not entitled to a refund for the following reasons: On the first service she requested and got a pump truck. The driver could have pumped her tank but did not and thereby saved her significant money. He cleaned the filter which immediately solved some of their problem. He did limited troubleshooting on the pump. On the 2nd service call the customer did not want to spend the money to adequately troubleshoot the problem or fix the problems that were found. On the 3rd service call it was pretty much the same story. Problems were identified that needed addressed but the customer choose not to fix them. It is frankly no surprise they continued to have a problem as they refused to pay to properly troubleshoot or fix problems. They then hired Brand X to make the needed repairs identified by FloHawks and are disputing the FloHawks charges. Respectfully Submitted,
This is the response to Mr ***’s complaint with the above referenced IDAs I understand it Mr***’s does not feel he should have to pay to go and pick up parts for his jobIt is impossible for a plumbing van to stock every plumbing part for every jobStores like Home Depot,
Lowe’s and McClendon’s Hardware have or aisles full of just plumbing partsIt is not possible to carry every conceivable partIt is standard practice in the plumbing industry to charge the time it takes to go and get a partThe plumber is dedicated to the customer’s job while in route to pick up parts.Although we do feel that we did anything wrong to satisfy the customer we will however refund the customer’s $as he has requestedI will request a check for $be sent out on Monday. Gary C***FloHawks Operations Manager0ffice 253-848-2371Cell ***@nwcascade.com
Attn: *** ***
This email is in response to the above referenced complaint
The facts as stated by *** *** are mostly accurate with a couple of exceptions as follow:
1. On 11/1/3015, *** *** called FloHawks to come
out to clear a main line backing up into the houseMr*** scheduled the work to be done in the morning of 11/3/This was later rescheduled for 11/4/in the AMOn 4/4/a service tech was dispatched to the above referenced addressUpon arrival the service tech determined that the mainline wasn’t pluggedHe determined that the problem was that no water was leaving the septic tank and recommended pumping for reliefA pump truck was dispatched that same day and went and pumped the tank for reliefThe customer was told that there was bigger problem and that more work was neededThe customer was never told that the pumping that was done would solve their problem or that it was done so more work could be doneThe fact that the tank had to be pumped again for the repairs to be made has nothing to do with the work FloHawks didA septic tank, under conditions will fill back up in 7-days
2. Yes, there was a delay in getting back to the customer until 11/10/Our customer service representative, Carl E*** talked to the customer about doing some exploratory digging in the drain field to determine if the drain field had failedDigging up the transport line and potholing around the laterals is the process for evaluating the drain field. A permit which is called a limited repair permit is required for this type of work and can take a few days to getIt did take a couple of weeks of to get to the point where the job could be scheduledAs far as we knew the customer was not out of service and therefore it was not an emergency
3. The work was scheduled to be done on 11/30/The excavation crew was sent out that dayUpon arrival at the property to complete the work as agreed on the customer turned the crew awayThey stated they were unhappy with FloHawks and had hired another company to do the work
FloHawks is not responsible for work done by another company in this case *** *** ***If the work had been done by FloHawks the tank may or may not have needed to be pumped againThe tank more than likely would have needed pumped again regardless of who did the work as a septic fills back up in 7-daysFloHawks has no control over work done by another company and is not responsible for this billWe are sorry for any inconvenience that Mrand Mrs*** may have suffered due to delays in getting the work completed but FloHawks is not responsible for work completed by another service company This would be like taking your car to one mechanic for repairs and then for whatever reason (timeliness, quality, personality conflict) they decide to get the repair done by a different mechanicThe first mechanic is not responsible for the cost of the repair done by the second mechanic
Thank you for your time in this matter
Gary C***
FloHawks Operations Manager
0ffice 253-848-
Cell ***
***
On 1/25/we received the response to this complaint by *** *** in response to FloHawks’ initial response to said complaint.We respectfully will agree to disagree with this customerAs per the attached service tickets that clearly show the work done on 11/4/was for “relief”The first call was to clear the mainlineUpon, arrival it was determined that the problem was not the mainline but a rather a much more serious problemBoth tickets clearly indicate that the drain filed was not taking liquid and the next step was for sales/area rep to contact the customer about the next stepBoth service tickets clearly indicate that the problem was beyond a simple fix and that pumping was for relief onlyThe work was not being done for evaluation and/or repairIn fact, both tickets clearly indicate that water was returning which indicates potential drain field failureThese types of repairs do typically take 2-weeks to get permits, get contracts in place, and get equipment and crews scheduledFurthermore, these types of repairs are exploratory in nature and may or may not solve the problem. There was never any time frame given for contacting the customer and doing more workI challenge the customer to provide any proof to the contraryThe customer clearly states there was no agreement for FloHawks to perform additional workThe customer choose to hire another company to complete the work which is their prerogative but FloHawks is not responsible for the billWe will not be issuing a refund or paying the bill for *** ***.Thank you for your time in this matter.Gary C***FloHawks Operations Manager
Though we do not totally agree with the description of the events that transpired we will refund the customer $Our employees are trained in communications especially when it comes to the customerIt is unfortunate that is happened and we will all we can to satisfy the customer's requestA
check will be sent in the mail by 11/15/17. Thank You
Unfortunately, we have to dispute this claimHere is what our records indicate: The customer had a different contractor come out before us to run a camera in his line, but it the line was holding water and nothing could be determinedWe did ran a camera to see if we could determine if the
system had an inlet baffle but we too could not determine thisWe ran a 2nd cable from the tub and 3rd toilet to clear out the system and water started to run but then the back up happened againOur recommendation was to dig and install a riser and lid to to see if there is an inlet baffelWe reviewed this with the customer and also provided a service call and technical work to analyze the situation
Here is the address of the residence: *** * *** *** *** **
*** ** ***
Complaint: ***
Sincerely,
*** ***
After reading Mr***’s complaint, we feel that our charges were justifiedIt is standard industry practice to charge for travel time and materials and we also quoted our hourly rate before we came to the propertyThere are many different types and manufactures of toilets and there is no way
any company can keep a full inventory of these different items in their vehicles at all timesWe did inform Mr***’s spouse throughout the service of the costs of our continued action and the whole time our technician was told to proceed with the repairAt any time, we could have been told to hold off or stop the repair so they could communicate with each other or do their own researchWe were forthcoming with all our actions and did not pressure anyone to finish this repair
With that being said, we will credit Mr***’s account the two hours of our technician’s travel time ($400)
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. Sincerely, [redacted]
[redacted] Please See Attached Documents [redacted]
8/25/2015[redacted] (File Number [redacted]) Attorney General of Washington Consumer Protection Division [redacted] Seattle, WA 98104Revdex.com PO Box 1000 DuPont, WA 98327Regarding: [redacted] Redmond WA...
98052Dear Sirs:This letter is in response to the complaints filed with both agencies by Mr. [redacted] regarding the above listed address. We disagree with the facts as presented by Mr. [redacted]. Northwest Cascade (NWC) DBA [redacted] provided Mr. [redacted] with timely service at the prices quoted. NWC has not been deceptive in any way with regard to our business practices. The prices charged are both reasonable and in line with industry standards for the work done. Each of Mr. [redacted] concerns will be addressed.Timely Service:Mr. [redacted] states in his complaint that he needed the work done with in a 2 week period. The first call to NWC was on 7/1/2015. All work was completed on 7/7/2015 and paperwork filed with King County on 7/9/2015. So all work was completed and paperwork filed within 8 days. In fact, the work would have been done even quicker but we were unable to get approval for the additional electrical work until 7/6/2015. In fairness, there was a weekend and a holiday (4th of July) in there. Furthermore, even though the customer's credit card declined NWC filed the paperwork with King County using a NWC credit card so as to honor our commitment of timely service.Charges:The charges were as quoted. Mr. [redacted] initially contacted our office on 7/1/2015 to pump the system at the above address on 7/2/2015. He needed it pumped because he was selling the property. He stated that someone else was doing the inspection. Mr. [redacted] was quoted $449.00 to pump the main septictank and $285.00 to pump the pump chamber. We also charge an $11.50 consumables charge. The total for pumping came to $816.82 with tax quoted.Mr. [redacted] called back later that same day and requested that an inspection for sale of the property also be done. He was quoted standard prices plus required County fees. Standard pricing for inspections are $179.00 for the first half hour and $44.75 per 15 minute increments thereafter. In addition there are approximately $200.00 in County Fees that we are required to collect. These fees are paid to the County. It usually takes about an hour to an hour and a half to complete an inspection. The charges for inspection and County fees came to $506.99.The inspection on the system was completed on 7/2/2015. The pumping was completed on 7/3/2015. During the course of the inspection it was discovered that the system had a couple of electrical problems. It was explained to Mr. [redacted] that we could file the paperwork with the County without making the repairs but the County could reject the filing and put the sale on hold. Mr. [redacted] was given an estimate of between $500.00 to $600.00 to do the electrical repairs which he agreed to. On 7/7/2015 the electrical repairs were completed as agreed upon for a charge of $546.95.The total for all work and required fees came to a total of $1685.00 plus $160.08 tax for a total of $1845.08. The customer was quoted individually for all the things that were done.Payment for Services:The agreement was that Mr. [redacted] would provide a credit card to cover the work and when the house closed then the escrow company would send Northwest Cascade (NWC) a check and the credit card would be credited back or the escrow company would send a check to Mr. [redacted]. If the house did not close then NWC would be paid for the work with the credit card. This is our standard practice as it relates to real estate transactions.When the work was completed on 7/7/2015 NWC attempted to run the credit card as agreed. The credit card declined. Numerous attempts were made to contact Mr. [redacted] regarding his declined credit card to no avail. Mr. [redacted] states that he could not get a copy of the invoice. Frankly, this makes no sense. I have attached a copy of the invoice which shows a date of 7/7/2015. Why would a business not give the customer a copy of the invoice they were trying to collect for?On 7/22/2014 NWC did receive a check from an escrow company ([redacted]) in the amount of $937.32 on behalf of Mr. [redacted] which was deposited. We were not sure where this dollar amount even came from as it did not match any of our 3 work tickets or the invoice. We see in the complaint that Mr. [redacted] says that he provided an estimate for that amount. NWC always intended to credit this amount against the invoice.Yes, we continued to try and collect the balance due for the work that was done. On 7/27/2015 a copy of the original invoice was emailed to the customer at his request. There was no intent to deceive Mr. [redacted]. At most there may have been a miscommunication regarding the check that was received. The current balance due is $907.76.In conclusion, the facts speak for themselves. The work was completed and paper work filed as agreed. NWC has not been paid for the services rendered as agreed to. The customer has been contacted several times regarding this matter and refused to pay. Instead, the customer has come up with a bogus complaint regarding timeliness of service, charges and customer service. This complaint has no validity. Clearly the facts, as documented by supporting official documents submitted with this response, do not support Mr. [redacted] claims.I have attached copies of the following:1. Copy of the invoice dated 7/7/2015 billed when work was completed.2. Copies of all 3 service techs job tickets showing the work and charges3. Copy of the order notes showing contact dates, order history, and collection attempts4. Copy of King County Property Transfer Report dated 7/9/2015NWC/[redacted] has done all that we agreed to do in a timely manner. If there is more information regarding this matter please let us know. Our records indicate that we completed the work as agreed both timely and for the price quoted. We are legitimately owed the balance of $907.76 for the work that was done.Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter. If you have questions I can be reached by phone at[redacted] or by email at [redacted]Gary C[redacted] Operations Manager[redacted]SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS REDACTED BY Revdex.com[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Business has resolved issues to my satisfaction.Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
We were told my the initial service tech that the pumping of the tank would need to be performed before any evaluation of the septic system or drain field could be done. We agreed to this with the expectation that Flohawks would actually perform the work they were called out to do (solve the basement backup issue) in a timely manor (as indicated by both technicians who serviced the septic system on 11/4/15). The fact that Flohawks is aware that the system would refill within 7-10 days only serves to justify our complaint. They should have responded to this issue timely in order to prevent a second pumping. During conversations with Jim [redacted] and Carl E[redacted], it was acknowledged that the tank would have to be pumped again, and that Flohawks would need to do this at no charge due to their failure to expeditiously resolve the issues.
Should Flohawks have issue with reimbursing the lesser charge of [redacted] for the second pumping, they are more than welcome to refund us their pumping fee of $500+, authorized on 11/4/15 and charged to our card on 11/6/15 as part of a total charge of $804.73. As indicated, this pumping was performed solely as a temporary solution (as indicated by the statement from Flohawks in their response), and they did not follow up to complete any work within the timeframe they have indicated would have been necessary to prevent a second pumping, which caused the second pumping to be necessary before repairs could be performed.
It was not at Flohawks' discretion to make the determination of whether this was an "emergency" situation. Until the issue could be resolved, a gaping hole had to be left in our front yard to allow access to the septic tank and baffle, which left our entire yard and surrounding areas reeking of excrement. If that's not an emergency situation, I don't know what is.
Further, there was no agreement for Flohawks to perform work at our location on 11/30/15. Our last communication with Flohawks was on 11/18/15 with Carl E[redacted].Sincerely,[redacted]
Revdex.com:I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me. Sincerely, [redacted]
This letter is Flohawks' official response to the above referenced complaint filed by [redacted]. FloHawks takes Revdex.com complaints seriously and do our best to investigate every situation. We do not keep record of every contact with the customer. The facts as stated in [redacted] complaint are...
not reported accurately and materially misrepresent what actually occurred.
The facts are as follows:
1. On Saturday, 2/20/2016 at 9:15 pm, [redacted] called our office and requested that a pump truck be sent to her house to pump her septic tank for relief. On Sunday, 2/21/2016 at 11:05 am a pump truck, per the customer's request, was sent to the location. Upon arrival the pump truck driver discovered that the customer had two tanks that did not need to be pumped. He found both tanks to be at a high level. The septic tank had a plugged outlet filter which he cleaned. He also found that the float wires were all twisted up in the pump chamber which he straightened out and got the pump to work.
It should be noted that the driver could have pumped both tanks for a cost of around $800.00 but did not do so as it was not needed. It also should be noted that the pump truck drivers can do basic troubleshooting on pumps but have neither the tools nor the expertise to do a complete diagnostic of a pump problem.
2. On 2/25/2016 at 7:15 am the customer called again. This time they reported a pump alarm and requested an electrician. An electrician went out later that day and determined that there was a problem with the timer that turned the pump on and off. Although it was working there was a 5-10 second delay before the pump started. This was explained to the customer who was very concerned about costs and declined to have the problem fixed. It was also discussed with the customer that there was water coming into the tank from the house which could be contributing to the problem. A leaking toilet was suspected to be causing the water leak. It was also discussed the the alarm float cords were swollen and the alarm float had a crack. The customer did not want the electrician to spend any additional time troubleshooting any additional problems. The customer stated that the husband was an engineer at [redacted] and would source the parts and fix the issues themselves.
It is stressed that the customer did not want the electrician to do any additional troubleshooting to insure that the timer was the only problem or determine if the water coming in or swollen cords were making the problem worse. The charges for this 2nd visit were at a substantially reduced rate. Normally, the charge for this second visit would be a service call ($179) plus another .25 hours at ($44.75) plus $11.50 consumables for a total of $235.25 plus tax. Instead we charged continuous time and the bill only came to $145.75 plus tax.
3. On 02/28/2016 at 12:04 pm the customer called again. This time they stated that they wanted us to come out and replace the timer. Apparently it was not as easy to find the part and/or replace it as they thought it would be. They also requested that the water issue be addressed when we came out to replace the timer.
When they called in this time they wanted to argue over the price of both the service and the cost of the part. Rather than argue over the price we again agreed to do the work at a reduced rate. Customer even called back to make sure we look at other problems.
Once we got onsite this 3rd time the timer was replaced. However, again due to cost concerns the customer did not want anymore troubleshooting or repairs done even thought it was noted on the ticket they signed that there were additional problems.
The above items 1-3 are the facts. These facts are supported by the order notes and signed field service tickets. I have attached copies of all invoices, order notes, service tickets and field service tickets regarding this matter. Simply stated this customer is/was extremely difficult to work with. They did not want to spend the money to address the septic system problems correctly. They wanted and received discounted rates for everything. They thought they could fix the problems themselves but when the could not they called us back. This approach contributed to additional costs even though all charges were discounted. Then when their system continued to have problems they wanted to blame FloHawks.
In conclusion, [redacted] is not entitled to a refund for the following reasons:
On the first service she requested and got a pump truck. The driver could have pumped her tank but did not and thereby saved her significant money. He cleaned the filter which immediately solved some of their problem. He did limited troubleshooting on the pump.
On the 2nd service call the customer did not want to spend the money to adequately troubleshoot the problem or fix the problems that were found.
On the 3rd service call it was pretty much the same story. Problems were identified that needed addressed but the customer choose not to fix them. It is frankly no surprise they continued to have a problem as they refused to pay to properly troubleshoot or fix problems. They then hired Brand X to make the needed repairs identified by FloHawks and are disputing the FloHawks charges.
Clearly, the signed service tickets and other attached paperwork in this matter support all of the above. The customer also states that they were in contact with the "plumber" on 3/13/2016 and that he never returned their call. If they had a problem they should have called the office. Our field staff do not carry company cell phones so I am not sure how they called the "plumber" who never returned their call.
The customer states that they called another company who came out and fixed the problem. If that is true great, the problem is fixed. Had they allowed FloHawks to properly fix all of the issues we identified as we identified them then all problems would have been corrected on the 2nd visit. Instead they choose a piece meal approach. This approach is what caused the problems with this job, not that FloHawks failed to properly complete the repair.
First I respectfully disagree with this customer's statement of the facts. The customer called in and indicated that his tank was open so there would be no reason to quote digging charges or trip charges. It cost money to operate a pump truck. It cost money to pay the driver. It is not reasonable to...
expect that we would come out for no charge. If you call the Maytag repair man and your appliance can't be fixed there is still a charge.
However, we have not and will not charge the credit card.
[redacted] Please See Attached Documents [redacted]
Per the complaint listed above we have prepared the following response to Mr. [redacted] complaint1. Our records indicate that [redacted] called in the order for a septic pumping formaintenance. We do not show any request for plugged lines.2. Our service...
drivers do not answer the phones in our office and take orders. The phone call wasanswered by Susan P[redacted] in our office.3. We do not guarantee everything to be fine over the phone. Trouble shooting over the phone isimpossible. The technicians jobs are to assess the problems on site and advise repairs or solveproblems as needed.4. During pumping of the tank we discovered unusual materials in the septic tank.5. We obtained approval from the owner for an electrician to come out and trouble shoot thepump not functioning. It turned out the pump was Ok, but the wiring to the pump was burnt upand needed replaced between the panel and pump chamber. That was the cause of the pumpnot working. The fuse in the panel was blown and would not stay set. The electrician cuttingthe wiring did not cause any of the problems. That would have been a spot repair if the otherproblems did not exist.6. We also offered to clean the tub line when we were informed of the issue. The customer thendecided to do this work on his own.Based on customer request and problems found at the home we believe all work has been performedappropriately and with customer approval. Please see the attached copies of drivers ticket, commentdocumentation done as part of the service order.As of November 19th the credit card payment for $608.14 has been rejected. We request that thispayment be remitted in full to satisfy the outstanding charges still owed.Please let us know if you need anything further. We expect that Mr. [redacted] will pay in full for servicesperformed at his or [redacted] at request, or we will have to pursue further actions to collectpayment.JR I[redacted]Vice President NW Cascade I Flo Hawks
Revdex.com:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID [redacted], and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Hello [redacted]
I have spoken with Mr. [redacted] and resolved the above reference complaint. We have agreed to refund Mr. [redacted] the entire amount of the invoice he paid on 7/31/2015. We apologize to Mr. [redacted] for the problem created. The work should have been done under warranty from work...
done in August of 2013. Although Mr. [redacted] was not asking for a complete refund when I investigated the facts it appeared that this was the right thing to do. FloHawks does strive to be fair to all customers and do the right thing.
Thank you Mr. [redacted] for working with us to resolve this issue. Again, please accept our apologies for the problem. You check has been processed and should arrive soon.
Thank you.
Gary C[redacted]
FloHawks Operations Manager
0ffice [redacted]
Cell [redacted]@nwcascade.com
Complaint: [redacted]I am rejecting this response because:
While I do appreciate the response from FloHawks, our request for a complete reimbursement of all charges is due to inadequate service and knowledge of the technicians. Because of these two items, a large balance continued to grow. It took our family going to a different organization for a one time visit that took 10 minutes. Since this visit the problem has been resolved.
When [redacted] requested that Floawks come to the property it was due to "Septic Alarm going off". The first line of introductory questioning from the operator clearly would have given FloHawks more than enough information that the septic tank would not need to be pumped. 2 people living in a residence that has a septic system set up for 4 people. Also the pump was pumped under 2 years ago when we purchased the home. Per all three technicians who came to our house should not have intended there for their to be a pumping.
All three of the technicians who visited our home thought the reason for the alarm going off was different. First technician (February 21) thought that it was because there was too much slack in the wires for the sensors. He wrapped up the cords with zip-ties as the solution. Pump was ran and everything seemed to be in good working condition. While you do state that the technician could have charged us simply for a pump, the problem was still there. So I don't see why stating he could have done a different solution. The problem still occurred three days later.
Next technician came out. This time he did state that it was the timer. Not probably, not might be, not could be. This was the problem. At this time the technician did put in a new timer. However, after that the technician recanted his words about the timer. Stating "I put the new one in it works. I put the old one in and it works now too. It's the weirdest thing." So yes I did ask about purchasing a timer elsewhere as the part was listed by your organization as ~ $150, I also found the part online for $65. However, I wanted to see if perhaps the timer had reset or was working and just needed to be pulled out. Things your technician did. Not I. So when the technician claims that I may not need to spend that kind of money, when I have already put in about ~$400 into the problem, you would probably do the same in my situation. Here I was also told that I need to conserve water usage going into the tank. Showers, laundry, and washing of the dishes were cut back.
Third technician came out after I submitted to their needing to be a new timer. A new timer was installed. But also at this time the technician couldn't properly reinstall the pvc pipe that the sensors were attached into my the tank that houses my septic tank pump. The technician went through everything and at this time even came and listened to the "leaky toilet" you proclaim was a cause. At this time the technician did not feel that it was a culprit let alone a factor in our issue.
At this time we feel that we have given FloHawks multiple opportunities to solve the issue with our septic alarm going off. Text message correspondence (I do not feel it is appropriate to give the number of the technician whose phone number we have as it may lead to unneeded discipline on the employee) with a technician continue to show that after continuing to run the pump for up to 3 minutes at a time several hours apart (in the texts from the technician) not more than 4 hours apart (in those same texts) and continuing to conserve water at either 1 load of laundry a day or 1 load of dishes and with the alarm problem still happening with a new timer (charged to us by FloHawks) every 3-4 days that FloHawks truly had failed to identify the cause of the alarm going off at all hours of the day and was unable to solve the problem. Even within these same text messages the technician requests for us to call into the operator and request a 4th opportunity to come and solve the problem. I am grateful that we did not.
In summary FloHawks was contacted about a septic alarm going off. While I am not a plumber, typically that means the tank is near full as that is 99% the purpose of the septic alarm. Three opportunities were had by FloHawks to solve the problem. All 3 times different issues were identified as the causes of the alarm going off. And the problem was never solved. We are asking for a full refund of our balance because FloHawks failed to provide a service yet charged us for such. We can provide a copy to the Revdex.com of our receipt from the organization that came out to our property and solved the problem within 10 minutes after.
Can we get the address to whee this service took place? We need that to be able to investigate the situation and resolve it. Thanks
To Whom It May Concern; This letter is Flohawks' follow up response to the response from [redacted]. Our response has not changed, This customer created their own problems. We provided service to this customer who did not want to pay for the work from the beginning and created their own problems by limiting what they wanted FloHawks to do and by their desire to save money by doing work themselves. We do not believe that the customer is entitled to a refund. In a show of good faith I will offer a 50% refund and if not accepted this offer is withdrawn. To re-iterate Mrs. [redacted] is not entitled to a refund for the following reasons: On the first service she requested and got a pump truck. The driver could have pumped her tank but did not and thereby saved her significant money. He cleaned the filter which immediately solved some of their problem. He did limited troubleshooting on the pump. On the 2nd service call the customer did not want to spend the money to adequately troubleshoot the problem or fix the problems that were found. On the 3rd service call it was pretty much the same story. Problems were identified that needed addressed but the customer choose not to fix them. It is frankly no surprise they continued to have a problem as they refused to pay to properly troubleshoot or fix problems. They then hired Brand X to make the needed repairs identified by FloHawks and are disputing the FloHawks charges. Respectfully Submitted,