September 15, Mrs [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mrs [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding you deposit account with the USAA Federal Saving Bank (FSB) Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, who addressed your concerns I hope that your conversation with Ms [redacted] reassured you that your satisfaction is important to us Per the USAA Depository Agreement and Disclosures (DAD) which was provided to you upon account inception and is available on usaa.com, under Setoff and Security Interest, “You agree that FSB may, without prior notice of demand, apply or setoff the funds in your account (and accounts you own with others) at any time to pay any debt, whether direct or indirect, that you have with FSB, and/or any fees or service charges owed to FSB In addition to its rights under the law (called “setoff”), you grant FSB a security interest in each account to secure such debt, as it may arise.” The DAD also explains that, “FSB may use funds held in joint accounts to repay the debts on which any one of you is liable, whether jointly with another or individually FSB may charge any such debt against your account at any time, without regard to the origin of deposits to the account or beneficial ownership of the funds.” If you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
August 2, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your checking account dispute claims Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, who explained the dispute processShe confirmed that provisional credits were placed in your respective checking accounts and are pending response from the merchant before becoming permanentIf you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] ***
August 10, [redacted] Dear Mrs [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your checking account with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB)I regret the frustration you experienced; however, our research confirmed we did not receive the required documentation, specifically a copy of your DD-214, to verify your military serviceAs you requested, your checking account was closed on August 4, 2015, and the balance of $was sent to you at the address on fileIf you have any questions, please contact [redacted] , of our staff, at [redacted] Thank you for allowing us to reply to youSincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: USAA has not given us any chances to prove that we did not do what we are accused ofI was told to get police report then reminded that if I do, it would be for our satisfaction only, they would not consider it and if I went and filed then I will be charged with filing a police reportUSAA calls and ask questions and when we prove they are wrong, it switches to another tactic and more accusationsNo moat term who I call to speak with, no one wants to hear our side or give us a chance to prove case, we are told that their decision is final and no matter who we contact or speak to the fact remains just thatThey originally closed case on Dec28,and when we decided not to open another account they had someone contact me saying whoever did it had no business and that as of Jan 5,are now going back and reopening account to charge usThey determined it was card cracking but felt we somehow participated in scam which we know nothing ofSome things were forgiven but if I'm not mistaking they are charging us with arm withdrawels Regards, [redacted] ***
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because of the following oversights:On July 16th I did speak with [redacted] , she actually called me when I was at the title company closing on my home for the second time because of all the mistakes that were madeDuring this phone call I conveyed to Ms [redacted] that we still did not have the final HUD for my homeIt made me very uncomfortable signing the closing documents for the second time and still, still not having all the required paperworkThis was incredibly frustratingMs [redacted] was very attentive to my needs and told me to give her a few minutes that she would call me back with the status of my final HUDShe eventually did call me back to let me know that it was still in progressI had long finished signing my closing documents before I received my final HUD, at around 9pm that nightI was then told I needed to sign the HUD and have it scanned to the title company ASAP, which I didOn July 16th, during my call with [redacted] , she assured me that I would be receiving an email from her updating me on the status of my complaint sometime during the week of July 20thI never received that updateThe only update that I have received has been an email from the Revdex.com saying that I have a message on August 3rdI have read USAA's response to my complaint, but have yet to receive any follow up from USAA about a possible resolutionTheir email states [redacted] will be contacting me, I have yet to receive any calls Regards, [redacted]
[redacted] I am responding to your submission regarding your World MasterCard with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) Thank you for speaking with [redacted] ***, of our staff, who explained our cancellation process for same-day payments made to the FSB As he advised, the online payment made on April 4, 2016, could not be canceled as it was already processed and completed We regret the inconvenience you experienced, and if you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] Credit cards are issued by USAA Savings Bank and serviced by USAA Federal Savings Bank, both Member FDIC Tell us why here
May 18, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms***: I am responding to your submission regarding your USAA credit cardOur records show that several disputes were submitted for the monthly recurring charges from TransunionWe provided permanent credits for the charges that were duplicated, and we also mailed you written notices on the outcome of each dispute filedWe also reviewed your credit card transactions and there were no indications of unauthorized activity [redacted] ***, of our staff, was unsuccessful in her attempts to reach by telephone to discuss the matter in detailIf you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] can be reached at [redacted] or [redacted] ***We appreciate you allowing us to reply to youSincerely, [redacted] ***
Mr [redacted] Complaint ID # [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your request for a VA mortgage loan with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, about the reasons why your mortgage loan could not close on the date you initially requestedWe regret the frustration you experienced, and I hope that your conversation with Mr [redacted] reassured you that your satisfaction is important to usWe were pleased to learn that you have closed on your loanIf you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: after several months of trying to resolve this issue I had to contact the Revdex.com to reach A decision my concern still remain, that this may be a practice of USAAUsually the service members do not have this type of time and energy to resolve the matterPlease monitor this practice Regards, [redacted]
October 21, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your auto loan applicationOur records confirm that you filed an inquiry with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)We responded to the CFPB on October 21, Thank you for the opportunity to replySincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I received a call from [redacted] and through the conversation she tried to explain that it was against federal law that I could not be reimbursed for the pest treatment and water test While talking with her I asked if she could provide me documentation or the law that prevents USAA from reimbursing me She said that she would look it up and send it to me Since USAA said it was a federal law then they must know the code of federal regulations that prevent them from reimbursing me She was not able to provide me with anything In fact in one instance she said it was a guideline but then resorts back to it being a federal law I have attached the entire conversation so the Revdex.com can see how I have been treated through my mortgage process If USAA can provide me the full payment of my pest treatment and water test or the law that prevents them from repaying me then I will accept a responseI have been lied to once about being able to be reimbursed and it appears that the lie continues to grow Regards, [redacted]
October 3, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your account access with USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for taking the time to speak with [redacted] ***, of our staff, who explained the reason for your account restriction and advised of the documents needed to confirm your identityShould you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] *** remains available to assist you We appreciate the opportunity to review your concerns again; however, we consider this matter closed Sincerely, [redacted] ***
[redacted] I am responding to your submission regarding activity related to your USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) deposit accountsI regret if you received any conflicting information regarding this situationYour experience was shared with the appropriate areasOur records show that a deposit account ending in [redacted] was closed on February 5, 2009, with an outstanding balance owed, and a notification was mailed to your address of recordSubsequently, on February 9, 2016, you established and funded two deposit accounts onlineThe next day, the FSB applied the funds from the new accounts to the charged-off account balanceWhen deposit accounts are established, account holders are provided with the FSB’s Depository Agreement and Disclosures (DAD), and it is also available onlineIt informs account holders that accounts and the DAD shall be governed by federal law and regulations applicable to federal associations such as FSB, and to the extent that local law applies, by the laws of the state of TexasIn addition, the DAD notes, “You agree that FSB may, without prior notice or demand, apply or setoff the funds in your account (and accounts you own with others) at any time to pay any debt, whether direct or indirect, that you have with FSB .” [redacted] , of our FSB staff, was unsuccessful in reaching you by telephone or emailHowever, his thorough analysis confirmed that the FSB handled this matter appropriately in accordance with all applicable banking regulations and with the DADPlease note that the account ending in [redacted] has a remaining balance owedMs [redacted] , while we understand this is not the outcome you were seeking, we appreciate the opportunity to review the situation, explain our position, and respondMr [redacted] remains available to assist you should you have additional questionsSincerely, [redacted]
March 2, Sergeant First Class [redacted] ***, USA (Ret.) Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Sergeant ***: I am responding to your submission regarding the payoff amount for your joint auto loan ending in with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for speaking with [redacted] of our staff, who confirmed that the payoff quote provided to Mrs [redacted] on usaa.com was accurate Ms [redacted] noted a payoff check from the dealership was applied to the loan balance on February 20, Following the payment, the loan reflected a remaining balance of $4,If you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
March 23, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr***: I am responding to your second submission regarding your personal loan with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Copies of the loan contract, statements, and payment history were mailed to your address on file We appreciate another opportunity to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
July 6, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms [redacted] : I am responding to your second submission regarding your deposit accounts Unfortunately, members of our staff were unable to reach you by phone to address your concernsPlease know we will review any supporting documents you provide detailing the payments that have returnedIf you wish to provide such documentation, please contact [redacted] of our staff, at your earliest convenience at (***) ***- [redacted] or (800) ***-***, Extension *** We appreciate the opportunity to review your concerns again Sincerely, [redacted] ***
January 23, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding USAA’s Web BillPay service and overdraft protection on your deposit account with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) I regret any frustration you may have experienced Our records reflect that you declined overdraft protection on the checking account application submitted via usaa.com in May In addition, our contact log indicates that you did not speak with a representative at the time of establishing the new checking account or setting up payments using Web BillPay On January 9, 2017, you called the FSB and authorized overdraft protection from your savings account, and a representative refunded three nonsufficient funds fees to your checking account as a courtesy [redacted] , of our staff, was unsuccessful in reaching you to discuss your concerns She verified that payments made through the Web BillPay service have successfully debited your account in the past We respectfully decline your request for additional reimbursement If you have further questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I would not be going to thr irs daily, calling usaa daily not filing a complaint with Revdex.com if me and my wife had obtain the money we are owedHowever, Usaa has stolen and lost the moneyCheck our bank account there no issue of direct depositIf I have to file a lawsuit I will do thatUsaa is fraud and has no integrity, honesty, murals of giving us are money backCan not show documents that it has been issued a direct deposit or where it has wentI will aee usaa in court Regards, [redacted] & [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:I asked for appraisal to be canceled not the loanThis is a simple lie on the behalf of USAA and reflects the utter lack of integrity within the organizationIn addition, USAA is focusing on this one issue rather the entire experience which was filled with incompetence by usaa mortgage officers throughoutI will now be considered legal action against usaa for damages Regards, [redacted]
May 4, Master Sergeant [redacted] , USAR Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Master Sergeant [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your deposit account [redacted] of our staff, completed a thorough review of your account, however; she was unable to contact you by phone to address your concernsIf you wish to discuss this matter, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you at ***) ***- [redacted] or (***) ***-***, Extension *** We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] ***
September 15, Mrs [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mrs [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding you deposit account with the USAA Federal Saving Bank (FSB) Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, who addressed your concerns I hope that your conversation with Ms [redacted] reassured you that your satisfaction is important to us Per the USAA Depository Agreement and Disclosures (DAD) which was provided to you upon account inception and is available on usaa.com, under Setoff and Security Interest, “You agree that FSB may, without prior notice of demand, apply or setoff the funds in your account (and accounts you own with others) at any time to pay any debt, whether direct or indirect, that you have with FSB, and/or any fees or service charges owed to FSB In addition to its rights under the law (called “setoff”), you grant FSB a security interest in each account to secure such debt, as it may arise.” The DAD also explains that, “FSB may use funds held in joint accounts to repay the debts on which any one of you is liable, whether jointly with another or individually FSB may charge any such debt against your account at any time, without regard to the origin of deposits to the account or beneficial ownership of the funds.” If you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
August 2, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your checking account dispute claims Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, who explained the dispute processShe confirmed that provisional credits were placed in your respective checking accounts and are pending response from the merchant before becoming permanentIf you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] ***
August 10, [redacted] Dear Mrs [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your checking account with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB)I regret the frustration you experienced; however, our research confirmed we did not receive the required documentation, specifically a copy of your DD-214, to verify your military serviceAs you requested, your checking account was closed on August 4, 2015, and the balance of $was sent to you at the address on fileIf you have any questions, please contact [redacted] , of our staff, at [redacted] Thank you for allowing us to reply to youSincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: USAA has not given us any chances to prove that we did not do what we are accused ofI was told to get police report then reminded that if I do, it would be for our satisfaction only, they would not consider it and if I went and filed then I will be charged with filing a police reportUSAA calls and ask questions and when we prove they are wrong, it switches to another tactic and more accusationsNo moat term who I call to speak with, no one wants to hear our side or give us a chance to prove case, we are told that their decision is final and no matter who we contact or speak to the fact remains just thatThey originally closed case on Dec28,and when we decided not to open another account they had someone contact me saying whoever did it had no business and that as of Jan 5,are now going back and reopening account to charge usThey determined it was card cracking but felt we somehow participated in scam which we know nothing ofSome things were forgiven but if I'm not mistaking they are charging us with arm withdrawels Regards, [redacted] ***
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because of the following oversights:On July 16th I did speak with [redacted] , she actually called me when I was at the title company closing on my home for the second time because of all the mistakes that were madeDuring this phone call I conveyed to Ms [redacted] that we still did not have the final HUD for my homeIt made me very uncomfortable signing the closing documents for the second time and still, still not having all the required paperworkThis was incredibly frustratingMs [redacted] was very attentive to my needs and told me to give her a few minutes that she would call me back with the status of my final HUDShe eventually did call me back to let me know that it was still in progressI had long finished signing my closing documents before I received my final HUD, at around 9pm that nightI was then told I needed to sign the HUD and have it scanned to the title company ASAP, which I didOn July 16th, during my call with [redacted] , she assured me that I would be receiving an email from her updating me on the status of my complaint sometime during the week of July 20thI never received that updateThe only update that I have received has been an email from the Revdex.com saying that I have a message on August 3rdI have read USAA's response to my complaint, but have yet to receive any follow up from USAA about a possible resolutionTheir email states [redacted] will be contacting me, I have yet to receive any calls Regards, [redacted]
[redacted] I am responding to your submission regarding your World MasterCard with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) Thank you for speaking with [redacted] ***, of our staff, who explained our cancellation process for same-day payments made to the FSB As he advised, the online payment made on April 4, 2016, could not be canceled as it was already processed and completed We regret the inconvenience you experienced, and if you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] Credit cards are issued by USAA Savings Bank and serviced by USAA Federal Savings Bank, both Member FDIC Tell us why here
May 18, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms***: I am responding to your submission regarding your USAA credit cardOur records show that several disputes were submitted for the monthly recurring charges from TransunionWe provided permanent credits for the charges that were duplicated, and we also mailed you written notices on the outcome of each dispute filedWe also reviewed your credit card transactions and there were no indications of unauthorized activity [redacted] ***, of our staff, was unsuccessful in her attempts to reach by telephone to discuss the matter in detailIf you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] can be reached at [redacted] or [redacted] ***We appreciate you allowing us to reply to youSincerely, [redacted] ***
Mr [redacted] Complaint ID # [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your request for a VA mortgage loan with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for speaking with [redacted] , of our staff, about the reasons why your mortgage loan could not close on the date you initially requestedWe regret the frustration you experienced, and I hope that your conversation with Mr [redacted] reassured you that your satisfaction is important to usWe were pleased to learn that you have closed on your loanIf you have additional questions, Mr [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: after several months of trying to resolve this issue I had to contact the Revdex.com to reach A decision my concern still remain, that this may be a practice of USAAUsually the service members do not have this type of time and energy to resolve the matterPlease monitor this practice Regards, [redacted]
October 21, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your auto loan applicationOur records confirm that you filed an inquiry with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)We responded to the CFPB on October 21, Thank you for the opportunity to replySincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I received a call from [redacted] and through the conversation she tried to explain that it was against federal law that I could not be reimbursed for the pest treatment and water test While talking with her I asked if she could provide me documentation or the law that prevents USAA from reimbursing me She said that she would look it up and send it to me Since USAA said it was a federal law then they must know the code of federal regulations that prevent them from reimbursing me She was not able to provide me with anything In fact in one instance she said it was a guideline but then resorts back to it being a federal law I have attached the entire conversation so the Revdex.com can see how I have been treated through my mortgage process If USAA can provide me the full payment of my pest treatment and water test or the law that prevents them from repaying me then I will accept a responseI have been lied to once about being able to be reimbursed and it appears that the lie continues to grow Regards, [redacted]
October 3, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your account access with USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for taking the time to speak with [redacted] ***, of our staff, who explained the reason for your account restriction and advised of the documents needed to confirm your identityShould you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] *** remains available to assist you We appreciate the opportunity to review your concerns again; however, we consider this matter closed Sincerely, [redacted] ***
[redacted] I am responding to your submission regarding activity related to your USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) deposit accountsI regret if you received any conflicting information regarding this situationYour experience was shared with the appropriate areasOur records show that a deposit account ending in [redacted] was closed on February 5, 2009, with an outstanding balance owed, and a notification was mailed to your address of recordSubsequently, on February 9, 2016, you established and funded two deposit accounts onlineThe next day, the FSB applied the funds from the new accounts to the charged-off account balanceWhen deposit accounts are established, account holders are provided with the FSB’s Depository Agreement and Disclosures (DAD), and it is also available onlineIt informs account holders that accounts and the DAD shall be governed by federal law and regulations applicable to federal associations such as FSB, and to the extent that local law applies, by the laws of the state of TexasIn addition, the DAD notes, “You agree that FSB may, without prior notice or demand, apply or setoff the funds in your account (and accounts you own with others) at any time to pay any debt, whether direct or indirect, that you have with FSB .” [redacted] , of our FSB staff, was unsuccessful in reaching you by telephone or emailHowever, his thorough analysis confirmed that the FSB handled this matter appropriately in accordance with all applicable banking regulations and with the DADPlease note that the account ending in [redacted] has a remaining balance owedMs [redacted] , while we understand this is not the outcome you were seeking, we appreciate the opportunity to review the situation, explain our position, and respondMr [redacted] remains available to assist you should you have additional questionsSincerely, [redacted]
March 2, Sergeant First Class [redacted] ***, USA (Ret.) Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Sergeant ***: I am responding to your submission regarding the payoff amount for your joint auto loan ending in with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Thank you for speaking with [redacted] of our staff, who confirmed that the payoff quote provided to Mrs [redacted] on usaa.com was accurate Ms [redacted] noted a payoff check from the dealership was applied to the loan balance on February 20, Following the payment, the loan reflected a remaining balance of $4,If you have additional questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
March 23, Mr [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Mr***: I am responding to your second submission regarding your personal loan with the USAA Federal Savings Bank Copies of the loan contract, statements, and payment history were mailed to your address on file We appreciate another opportunity to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
July 6, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms [redacted] : I am responding to your second submission regarding your deposit accounts Unfortunately, members of our staff were unable to reach you by phone to address your concernsPlease know we will review any supporting documents you provide detailing the payments that have returnedIf you wish to provide such documentation, please contact [redacted] of our staff, at your earliest convenience at (***) ***- [redacted] or (800) ***-***, Extension *** We appreciate the opportunity to review your concerns again Sincerely, [redacted] ***
January 23, Ms [redacted] Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Ms [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding USAA’s Web BillPay service and overdraft protection on your deposit account with the USAA Federal Savings Bank (FSB) I regret any frustration you may have experienced Our records reflect that you declined overdraft protection on the checking account application submitted via usaa.com in May In addition, our contact log indicates that you did not speak with a representative at the time of establishing the new checking account or setting up payments using Web BillPay On January 9, 2017, you called the FSB and authorized overdraft protection from your savings account, and a representative refunded three nonsufficient funds fees to your checking account as a courtesy [redacted] , of our staff, was unsuccessful in reaching you to discuss your concerns She verified that payments made through the Web BillPay service have successfully debited your account in the past We respectfully decline your request for additional reimbursement If you have further questions, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because: I would not be going to thr irs daily, calling usaa daily not filing a complaint with Revdex.com if me and my wife had obtain the money we are owedHowever, Usaa has stolen and lost the moneyCheck our bank account there no issue of direct depositIf I have to file a lawsuit I will do thatUsaa is fraud and has no integrity, honesty, murals of giving us are money backCan not show documents that it has been issued a direct deposit or where it has wentI will aee usaa in court Regards, [redacted] & [redacted]
Complaint: [redacted] I am rejecting this response because:I asked for appraisal to be canceled not the loanThis is a simple lie on the behalf of USAA and reflects the utter lack of integrity within the organizationIn addition, USAA is focusing on this one issue rather the entire experience which was filled with incompetence by usaa mortgage officers throughoutI will now be considered legal action against usaa for damages Regards, [redacted]
May 4, Master Sergeant [redacted] , USAR Complaint ID #: [redacted] Dear Master Sergeant [redacted] : I am responding to your submission regarding your deposit account [redacted] of our staff, completed a thorough review of your account, however; she was unable to contact you by phone to address your concernsIf you wish to discuss this matter, Ms [redacted] remains available to assist you at ***) ***- [redacted] or (***) ***-***, Extension *** We appreciate you allowing us to reply to you Sincerely, [redacted] ***